I Haven’t Protected My Tenant’s Deposit, What Should I Do?

For a general overview and background on tenancy deposits, please refer to the tenancy deposit guide. For those of you that are familiar with the legislation but have failed to protect your tenant(s) deposit for one reason or another, you’re in the right place.

Brief reminder of what is required to comply with the Tenancy Deposit Legislation

To be in compliance with the Section 213 Housing Act 2004, any money taken from a tenant as a security deposit must be protected in a Government approved scheme with in 30 days of receiving it. Just to clarify, it is NOT a legal requirement to take a deposit, so this legislation only applies to those landlords that do (which, quite frankly, is most).

After the deposit is protected, the tenant must be given the Prescribed Information related to the protection of the deposit, also with in 30 days. NB. Make sure you have evidence that you have done it.

It’s also worth noting that ALL deposits ever taken must now be protected– even those taken before 2007 when the original deposit legislation was introduced (that was previously NOT the case). Landlords had until the 23rd June 2015 to protect deposits!

Once the deposit is protected and the proscribed information is served with in the allocated time, you have complied with the law until the tenancy ends – even if you allow it to roll on (known as Statutory Periodic Tenancy) after the fixed term has ended.

I didn’t protect my tenant’s deposit!

Mr Forgetful
If you are one of the many landlords or Letting Agents (yep, they screw up too, but that’s probably no surprise) who have not protected your tenants deposit you’ve got a problem. Well you know that otherwise you wouldn’t be reading this. Hello, welcome.

There have been so many changes to Deposit Protection Legislation, since it was foist upon us in the Housing Act 2004, it’s not surprising that so many landlords get it wrong– but unfortunately ignorance is no defence in law.

I am going to do this backwards because it is when a problem shows its ugly face that most landlords realise that they have screwed up, so let’s look at some of the most common scenarios (sadly, none of which will save you), and from my experience, when most landlords frantically start becoming concerned about their non-compliance…

1) My tenants are threatening me
Your tenant(s) has discovered they can prosecute you and potentially make a quick buck by seeking compensation for your failure to comply with the law. Either you pay compensation or face legal action.

This is unbelievably common, which is pretty sad. More about what to do in this scenario below.

2) I need to get rid of my tenant but I can’t serve a Section 21
The penny usually drops when you reach for a Section 21 Notice and read the notes which tell you what you have to do to serve a valid Notice on your tenant.

If the Deposit Protection Legislation has not been followed, you’re screwed – meaning your only option is the hassle of a Section 8 Notice where you must prove grounds for eviction (which you may not even have).

3) The Judge threw out my Section 21 because I had not protected the tenants deposit
Most savvy tenants will take advice when they are served with a Section 21 and one of the first questions they will be asked is “Did your landlord protect your deposit?” Followed by “Did he send you the legally required information about your deposit protection within 30 days?”

If they cannot answer YES to both questions they will be told to contest the Section 21 in court. That’s when the Judge will most likely look at the details and throw the case out of court, so here you are.

4) A bloke in the pub told me that I should have protected my tenants deposit – what is he talking about? I didn’t have a clue!
This is a typical case where the landlord has just one property, from when he moved in with his girlfriend, and hasn’t a clue about the landlord legal requirements. You have also heard through your sources that the tenant can gain compensation… and now you’re scared, wondering if it’s all true.

Yes, it’s true.

5) I forgot!
You forgot to protect the deposit and/or serve the prescribed information (not sure how many people will believe this one!).

Any of the above sound depressingly familiar? If your case is not one of the above (or similar), please leave a comment with the details…

I didn’t comply with the tenant deposit legislation– what can I do?

Now, let’s get to the crux of the matter.

As it stands, these are your options:

  • Recommended solution: Protect it now and serve the prescribed information hoping that if an issue arises and it goes to court the Judge will take the view “better late than never”
  • Pay the deposit back to the tenant and hope that he doesn’t find out that he can get compensation, although it might be difficult to explain *why* you’re giving it back.
  • If you’re trying to get rid of a rogue tenant, use a Section 8, with grounds for eviction.
  • Do nothing, but sit tight and pray that your tenants don’t realise protecting the deposit and serving the Prescribed Information is a legal requirement and/or they don’t care enough to seek compensation because you’ve been an amazing landlord.

If your tenant hasn’t mentioned anything…

There’s a good chance your tenant isn’t aware of the tenancy deposit legislation or the ramifications of failing to comply. It’s also not unusual for tenants to be aware, but waive their right to prosecute because their landlord has been reasonable throughout the tenancy.

The point here is that you don’t want to give your tenant a reason to look into the legislation or exercise their right to claim compensation.

  • The most common reason why tenants proceed to take legal action is because they feel screwed over by how the deposit has been handled (i.e. when landlords try to make deductions over trivial and menial damages, which actually, quite often fall under wear and tear). So when it’s time for them to vacate, forget the temptation to deduct £90 for carpet cleaning, or £50 for picture hook repair, just let it go. Otherwise they may start looking into their rights. Generally speaking, biting your lip and absorbing those costs is the safest and cheapest option!
  • The second most common reason is failure to complete repairs promptly, or making repairs at all. Ignoring your duty to maintain and repair is a sure-fire of pissing your tenants off, consequently giving them reason to prosecute given the opportunity. So with that in mind, and ethics aside, it might be sensible to ensure your attend to repairs and maintenance issues promptly, and generally be a good landlord all round (you should be anyways, mind you!).

    It’s also worth noting that if your tenant does take the matter to court to seek compensation (regardless of whether you’ve been a good or bad landlord), some Judges do take into consideration how the landlord has conducted themselves during the tenancy before determining how much they should be penalised.

Can I get in serious trouble for not protecting my tenant’s deposit? What can happen?

Putting it bluntly, you have broken the law, so yes, there can be consequences.

  • A tenant, who takes legal action, can expect to be awarded compensation because his legal rights have been denied. A Judge has the power to award between 100% and 300% of the deposit in compensation and may also instruct you to return the whole deposit. This can be an expensive loss, not just because of the compensation, but also if you actually need use the deposit to cover damages.
  • Because you have not complied with the law, your rights to use legal process to remove a rogue tenant have been reduced- you can no longer use Section 21 of the 1988 Housing Act (which is often the most efficient method of removing a rogue tenant).

My tenant is threatening me with legal action, what should I do?

Ok, so presumably shit has hit the fan; your tenant has discovered you failed to comply with the deposit legislation, and now they’re after a handsome payout. Unfortunately, this is becoming a terribly familiar scenario, rightly or wrongly so.

What to do at this stage will depend on the individual circumstances, so there isn’t a simple solution for all. However, there’s more information available in the “ways you can legally end a tenancy agreement.

My letting agent did not protect the deposit…

Oh dear.

Your hired help has failed you. Common scenario.

So where do you stand in this case? Are you given the luxury of mercy? Unfortunately, you’re in the exact same position as if you have no association with a letting agent. If its of any consolation (which it probably won’t be), the law was specifically changed in the Housing Act 2004 to allow tenants to sue the agent as well as the landlord for the penalty for non compliance of protecting the tenancy deposit.

If you are using a Letting Agent and they do not protect your tenants deposit correctly– you’ll still ultimately be held responsible. Even if you have not touched a penny the law states that the deposit was taken on your behalf and therefore you are responsible. That’s why it’s essential to ensure that your Letting Agent is a member of a Property Redress Scheme (legally required since October 2014) so at least you will have redress if they screw up.

A Letting Agent cannot go to Court for Possession without the property owner, he can go with you as what is known as a “McKenzie Friend”. He can complete the Notices and other documents but you must sign them. Only a legally qualified person can represent you in Court.

Does anyone else have any additional tips to share? Do you have any experiences to share regarding this matter, weather you’re a landlord or a tenant? I’d love to hear your story!

597 Comments- Join The Conversation...

Showing 547 - 597 comments (out of 597)
Guest Avatar
David 20th April, 2018 @ 20:51

@Chuddy

I feel really sorry for you but to be honest it is your own fault, you failed to prepare for your case

You can appeal and bring a claim against them.

I wrote to you via the forum the other day and back in January.

I told you above you could have had a huge payout and could have got things to work for you.

If you had provided me with the information when I requested it I would have helped you get the case dismissed and issue a counterclaim for nearly £11k on the deposit alone and potentially £40k for the harassment.

People offer you help but they have a life, other clients and it is not fair to come back on here and whinge 4 days from Court date when you did not even respond to the very first email I sent you in January. You left it too late to file evidence so you disrespected the Court and it punished you. Now you can appeal but you need it to be looked at professionally.

I am still prepared to look at your case but you will need to be responsive.

In life you can't help people who do not help themselves.

547
Guest Avatar
Chuddy 20th April, 2018 @ 21:29

Hi.

I did respond as you said to knew legal people who could help. I did not get a response.

Can you tell me how long it takes for Baillifs to get a Warrant for eviction. On a Immediate Procession order ??

I have filled In the form N244 to set aside the Judgement as explained by the Court.
Not for the possession order by the Monetary Side of the Case and what we have had to put up with

Thank you

548
Guest Avatar
David 21st April, 2018 @ 09:05

@Chuddy

I sent you a message via forum in January, you did not respond, the next I heard from you was the post above 4 days before Court date when it was too late to file.

I have helped loads of visitors from this site, Landlords and Tenants alike. I do this in between my paid clients. Currently I am helping 4 people with active cases. I cannot wipe your arse for you, if you want my help I expect you to do your bit and promptly, my time is limited so I expect you to respect it.

You will not have much chance of setting judgement aside unless you can show a legitimate reason for not presenting evidence in the first place. The reason I asked the questions in January was so I can assess your case and provide the best strategy, it is a minefield for both Landlords and Tenants.

Courts work within a framework call Civil Procedure Rules, anything you want a Court to do has to have a CPR rule, many of these compel a Court to take certain actions.

You will have been served papers which told you the things you needed to do. The first of those was an acknowledgement of service, the way you fill this in can help or hinder you.

You have to file your defence against what the Landlord is claiming, these must apply to the section of law that he is using, not another one. You can at that time bring a counterclaim, a dispute, a legitimate reason for the arrears. If you had responded promptly in January I would have done all this for you.

If the action was brought as a Section 8 the EPC et al defences would not work, they stop Section 21.

I did advise you the other day that you could delay action by bringing the arrears down to less than 2 months and asking the Court for time to reduce arrears and permission to bring a counter claim (as you were late).

The Court will have given you between 14 and 42 days to leave, after that date if you do not leave the Landlord has to get Court bailiffs, these take up to six weeks depending on the lead time at your local Court (call them to ask). If the Landlord tries to escalate to High Court Enforcement I can help you with that as long as you let me know promptly.

Now the power you have is that your deposit was huge, the the Landlord will face nearly £11k regardless and you can bring your claim anytime. I can help you with that, but for now you can use it as a negotiation tool to delay eviction.

You also have the claim for harassment and assault which are huge. So huge in fact that I would not suggest you do this on a conditional fee basis if you can find the money.

I can't discuss too much here because your Landlord may read it, so I suggest you contact me via the forum and I will start over with you to determine the best way forward from where you stand now.

549
The Landlord Avatar
The Landlord 21st April, 2018 @ 12:03

@Chuddy,
Unfortunately, you didn't reply to David; you keep replying to the email notifications (which says, "IMPORTANT: Remember, this is just a notification. Please do not reply to this email."), and not actually directly to David by either the forum private messaging system or directly on this blog post.

550
Guest Avatar
David 21st April, 2018 @ 18:08

Thanks @Landlord

That explains it, @Chuddy when you get a message from the forum click the link in the email, then when logged into the forum click Reply to message me.

551
Guest Avatar
Bob 22nd April, 2018 @ 21:57

Hi David,
Hope all well? Just to change the mood a little, and whilst I wait to hear the outcome after the notice period having taken your advice and served the S21, I hope to see if there was any advice from you or any of your members in relation to the following. I know it is a little off topic but there seems to be some very clued up individuals on this forum.

Didn't know whether to start a new thread, but here goes:

Below is an email I sent to my local borough council after having visited my mother's house. I hope the email is self-explanatory:

Hello, on the 17-MAR-18 I visited my mothers house at XXX, and was stunned to see all the trees from the back of her garden had disappeared. On checking further, the Neighbour behind has had a large number of trees in their garden felled. The issue is that the trees that bordered the back of their garden were on my Mothers property.
I went around to the Neighbour (XXX) and asked what their reasons were and why they had not seeked my mother?s permission to fell the trees that were located on her property.
The neighbour advised that they had approached the council as the trees (which I believe were holly trees) were causing issues for their children to be able to play freely in the garden. It was in fact council workmen who had come, removed fence panels and then felled trees.
With regards to the trees, whilst we can appreciate that they would have caused an issue for those behind, we (this also includes the Neighbour at XXX) were never consulted about the councils decision to remove them. The trees for many years have provided an excellent safety and security deterrent to anyone trying to approach my mothers house from the rear. This is now wide open and very dissatisfactory.
This also leaves open the land at the end of XXX (behind my mothers) that belongs to my mother at XXX that needs to be brought back into my mothers garden. Visiting the site will make this all clear.
Originally when the property at xxx was purchased by my parents, the garden extended to a wooden fence at the back. Inside the perimeter of this fence was a line of holly trees, and after several years of living there, my parents erected a second fence in front of these holly trees to make the garden more pleasing to the eye. The neighbours did the same over the years, especially XXXX. Neighbours at XXXX had built an out house a few years ago that they took all the way back to the original boundary.
Now that the original boundary fence is no longer there, and the trees removed, this gives the impression that XXX has a larger garden, and my mothers garden at XXXX is now technically smaller.
I would be grateful for some response from the council as to a) why my mother was not contacted first to seek her permission, or at the very least her involvement in any council based decision making process and b) what the council will be doing about re-installing a new boundary fence at the rear of 27 Marshall Close, allowing my mother to ensure that her land remains with her property and is not open to further development on by neighbours in XXX.

The below now is the councils response received this Friday, having taken the maximum number of days in which to respond:

Dear XXX,

Thank you for your email.

Following various complaints from the residents and neighbours in relation to overgrown trees at XXX, a job was raised for our contractor to attend and fell the trees that were causing a potential health and safety risk.

Having attended to inspect the garden yesterday, it does appear that one of the trees that was felled was along the boundary line .

Though, I can confirm that no fence panels were removed as part of these works. In addition, your mother’s fence is positioned before the boundary line which resulted in the contractors being unaware of any boundary issues.

I apologise for this oversight on behalf of our contractors.

However, the tree along this boundary was indeed causing a potential health and safety risk to our resident’s and according to the tree surgeon, it did require felling.

The council has absorbed the cost of this, which may have otherwise have had a financial impact on your mother.

Moreover, there are a couple of trees on the left of the boundary line which appear to be on your mother’s property and interfere with the boundary line. This will need to be dealt with before any fence can be installed along the boundary line.

The residents have been advised of the boundary line, however the council will not be installing a fence in this financial year. The council has already spent a lot of money improve the state of the garden at 27 Marshall Close.

Your mother is welcome to re-position her fence back to the original boundary line if she wishes to do so.

Please feel free to contact me if you wish to discuss this matter further.

Kind Regards,

XXXX

Housing Officer

Again, I hope their reply is self-explanatory, as in they are not accepting any responsibility for the removal of the rear most fence ( although we can not be sure that there was one before the trees were removed), and are not prepared to reinstate a new boundary line fence.

My questions here, and what I am looking for advice on is:

* Can a council come in and remove tree's on private property without first consulting with the owner of the land? I have photo's clearly showing that there were a number of trees removed from WITHIN my mother's boundary line. Also, my mother and her side neighbour would have loved to have been given the choice as to what was to happen to those tree's in the rear. They have provided an excellent security deterrent for over 30 years of us having lived there.
* As I have now discovered the property behind my mothers is in fact a council property, are they not responsible for the upkeep of the boundary line and maintain/repair/replace a broken/damaged/removed fence as owners/landlords?
* As the property behind now has a bigger garden and my mothers garden is still the same size, although in fact the second fence should now be dismantled and moved back several feet before being rebuilt on the boundary line, what rights does the council have over this land if we do not do this in a certain time frame.
* My mother is registered blind with the borough council, and has been a resident of the borough since 1981. What recourse does she have with regards to claiming for compensation, and on what grounds? And are we able to push the council into reinstating a boundary line fence, which is all we really want them to do?

* I originally submitted the above as a COMPLAINT to the borough, and according to their website they have a strict criteria to follow in terms of response times etc. BUT the email reply makes no reference to my email as a complaint, so do I take it as them downgrading my contact with them as just an email? Or can I ask for this to be taken more seriously?

* Do I need to push this matter further within the council, potentially to my mother's ward councillor?

OR

* do we thank the council for taking the cost of the tree felling, and arrange for a handyman to come over and move the fence panels back to the original boundary line and call it a day?

Any help and advice will be greatly appreciated. Like the most of us, I too am busy with work and family, and it really is a case of gauging what could be gained by pushing the matter further or not. I'm just a little aggrieved by the fact that they came onto my mothers property, removed tree's and panels and didn't even care to think that she would need to know.

Again, thank you.

Also, will keep the forum updated as to what happens after the 2 months notice period on the S21 recently served.

552
Guest Avatar
Chuddy 23rd April, 2018 @ 07:20

Hi David.

I have now Traced the Landlord.

You said you could put a Draft letter together for me with regards to Deposit not being Protected and other relevant Issues.

Can you please do that for me.

Thank you

553
Guest Avatar
David 23rd April, 2018 @ 10:36

Hi Chuddy

Due to the confidential nature of this I have responded via the forum.

554
Guest Avatar
David 23rd April, 2018 @ 11:02

@Bob

This side of the site is a blog, there is a Landlord forum link above where you will get other Landlords pile in.

First of all the Council is unlikely to incriminate themselves, but to be honest they have powers to act from various legislation, the easiest is GPC - General Power of Competence brought in by the Localism Act 2011.

I think they might argue that they send your mother correspondence and suggest that she missed it because she is registered blind.

These days most Councils have sold their Council properties to a Housing Association (some are even formed from the transfer). So you might want to establish who actually owns the land behind and who contracted for the work to be done.

Councils do wish to avoid protracted legal action, so you may be able to get them to replace the boundary fence. The deeds will show exactly where it is, you can get a copy of your own deed and that of the property behind.

I would not hold out much hope of compensation, I would contact the your Local Counciller or complain directly to the Chief Exec.

You might want to look up the local crime stats in her specific area which are published and then suggest to the Council that their works have left your mother more vulnerable so ask them to make good the damage they have done. Maybe replace with some fast growing eucalyptus (be warned some consider these a hazard). They will always prefer the cheapest option!

Wait and see how they respond to your letter.

Your mother is entitled to put up a fence at the borders subject to local bylaws and covenants in the original deed.

555
Guest Avatar
Looper 25th April, 2018 @ 18:37

Hello,

My husband and I have a huge problem with a property we rent, I hope someone here can help us.

We´ve rented a property since 2015, initially it was for 11 months, we had 2 extensions to the original contract and now we are in the 3rd term which ends in 2019. We always dealt with one man who is listed on the rental contract as landlord etc, we never met anyone else other than the agent who initially dealt with the tenancy (the 2 extensions were done direct with landlord and the agent was not ever used after the initial tenancy agreement).

Recently, our landlords wife wrote to us and said she was divorcing the landlord and the house is hers, she went on to say that "she is the rightful owner and landlord" - She insisted that we sign a new contract with her and ignore the existing agreements with her husband. We replied saying that we couldnt simply stop a contract with her husband, we confirmed we were totally impartial and that if we were to change over the contract she would need to get written confirmation from her husband. She then instructed a solicitor to contact us and say the same, he said she owned the property and that we would need to sign a contract with her to remain in the house, otherwise face eviction. We spoke with the husband, our landlord, and he said his wife was totally out of order and that her claims to solely owning the house were completely un-true. Our landlord went on to say that his solicitor had sent her a letter to tell her to stop. He apologised various times for the discomfort and confirmed his wife would stop harassing us.

We thought that would be the end of it but next the wife´s solicitor wrote to us and issued us a section 21.

We spoke with "Shelter" and they reiterated some things we already knew from internet research but they were rather stumped by the wife´s (and her solicitors) behaviour, and told us they couldn´t give more advice than they had, the reality is they didn´t actually give us any advice on how to deal with this, initially they said it was impossible for the wife to evict us as she is not our landlord, and that even if she was the landlord, she would need rent arrears or another good reason to evict us. When, a few days later, the Section21 came, we contacted Shelter again, they were very surprised and said they couldnt advise further, they did say that it was very likely we would be able to contest the s21.

What should our actual course of action be in this case? If any further information is required I am happy to elaborate, in private if necessary. I really appreciate this resource, i´ve been reading through the posts and there is a lot of clarification on many points, but I feel our situation is different from everyone i´ve ever read before.... It really is distressing that we are involved in another persons divorce, should the parties involved not leave us tenants in peace, until the court make their divorce awards official?

Thank you in advance for any advice.

556
Guest Avatar
David 25th April, 2018 @ 20:07

@Looper

I am sorry for the situation you find yourself in and will try to help you.

First thing to check is who is the legal owner of the property

You can do that for £3 by ordering a title deed from the Land registry, it is all done online from this link

https://eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/eservices/FindAProperty/view/QuickEnquiryInit.do

Next you need to understand that you have a contract, to be honest, it does not matter if she is the owner, the fact that it was her husband who let you the property validates the contract until a Court of Law terminates it. That has not happened and an S21 is not the legal procedure to terminate a contract, it is an accelerated eviction process and she could only issue such a notice if she was in fact a party to the contract she is trying to break.

She can't have it both ways.

It will also be affected by whether they are Joint Tenants or Tenants in Common, by their marriage in certain circumstances. If she had bought out the property from her husband she would become your landlord, but that does not seem to be the case based on the response from the Husband. If it was her property to begin with it does not matter because until terms of divorce are settled by Court he has at least a claim if not joint ownership, but as I said these things need to be determined by a Judge and from what you have said thus far, this is not the case.

We can have some fun with the S21, I will help you fill out the response to the Court and draft a letter to the Solicitors rejecting the S21 but there is no hurry. If you want to stay in there as long as possible we can so things serially rather than in parallel.

So your tenancy is secure until 2019 unless there is a break clause, it would specify the conditions when the contract could be terminated, if there is no break clause then the contract lasts until 2019 unless you have breach terms specified in the contract that bring the contract to an end, even those require a Section 8 notice from the Landlord, not his wife.

Now do not be surprised if the wife puts pressure on the Landlord to end the contract, but again it will need to be legally correct.

If the Solicitor who issued the section 21 had any sense he would have done a registry search, he may have seen the property in both their names but that in itself does not give her rights to end a contract her husband entered into.

Anything she wants to happen needs to be determined by a Judge, she may want half the rent but that is a dispute between her and her husband. She may want to sell the property but there are strict rules about that and besides if it is in both their names it can't be sold without both of them agreeing, even then they can't evict you in those circumstances without grounds if they use Section 8 or during a fixed term contract without a break clause for S21.

For your info their Ground for a Section 8 (which they have not issued yet are here:

https://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/section-8-evicting-tenants/#grounds

As for the S21, I have about 30 ways you can frustrate their attempts to evict you, but for now I think we need to move to the forum because of the privacy aspect.

So please register with the Landlord forum link at the top of the page or use this link

https://www.landlordforumproject.co.uk/

Once you have registered you will be sent an email to validate your registration, click that link and log into the forum, you may then send me a Private Message from the link below:

http://bit.ly/davidpip

When I reply your messages in the forum you will get a copy in your email but you MUST reply via the forum, if you reply via your email client I will NOT get the message.

So do not worry, I will give you some further advice in private message to help you secure yourself further.

557
Guest Avatar
Looper 26th April, 2018 @ 08:35

@David

Thank you for your comprehensive reply!

You´ve already helped calm my fears with your positive attitude towards this problem we face. I´ve sent you a PM via the forum and will speak to you there more.

Best regards.

558
Guest Avatar
SJG 30th April, 2018 @ 14:38

So I signed a tenancy agreement on 24th April 2017, and I have never received anything to say that my deposit is protected. I've checked with the 3 agencies who cannot see any record of my deposit. The landlady will not answer me when I ask who the deposit is registered with.

I have moved out of the property now. The property was a total mess when i moved in, and it was so bad that the landlady even offered me money to decorate, including new carpet (This wasn't a huge amount, it was more of a contribution to it) The hallway floor for example was a terrible state with mats stapled to the stairs and bits of laminate hanging off all over the place. I had this carpeted and I have before and after pics. I also have the email confirming that she had offered money towards the new carpet. She is now saying that she did not authorise it, and that laying that carpet is tantamount to vandalism.

When I left, I did have some outstanding bills as I'd had a difficult time financially after being made redundant, however these bills were all in my name and I had spoken to the bill companies to arrange payment and advise that I'd moved.

The deposit wasn't much, only £570, but she is now saying that the 'vandalism' cost her £450 to repair, plus other bits, and there is no deposit left to give me. She still won't confirm that its protected....

Can someone advise me on the best thing to do?. I don't have much experience with this sort of thing but I'm sure my deposit should be protected?

Thanks in advance

559
Guest Avatar
David 30th April, 2018 @ 18:55

Hi SJG

I would be happy to help you draft a letter, if the facts are as you outlined them above with no surprises, then not only will you get your deposit back but between 1x and 3x the deposit and if you want we can ask for a positive reference too. The alternative is I help you take her to Court and she faces thousands in legal fees, trust me she will bite your hand off.

You needed to be a tenant in self contained property, not a lodger or holiday let, those are the only real exceptions.

If your former Landlady was organised she would have taken an inventory when you moved in and you should have too. I always advice both parties to take a video then upload it to YouTube as a hidden video. Then if there is any dispute you have a time stamped video ready as evidence of the state of the property.

In this case if you have an email it will suffice.

If you have checked the following three sites and put in the correct postcode, deposit amount and date then that will suffice as evidence.

http://bit.ly/chkdep1

http://bit.ly/chkdep2

http://bit.ly/chkdep3

In order to maintain your privacy I suggest you register with the Landlord forum link at the top of the page or use this link

https://www.landlordforumproject.co.uk/

Once you have registered you will be sent an email to validate your registration, click that link and log into the forum, you may then send me a Private Message from the link below:

http://bit.ly/davidpip

When I reply your messages in the forum you will get a copy in your email but you MUST reply via the forum, if you reply via your email client I will NOT get the message. Once you login it should be self explanatory.

I will than gather some details and draft you a letter.

560
Guest Avatar
Chuddy 30th April, 2018 @ 19:19

Hi David.

I have tried to Contact you directly but there seems to be a problem.

I would like to know what steps I can take with regards to Deposit.

I will not go through all the details as I have done already on several occassions.
I checked with all Deposit Protection Shemes if my Deposit id £3,500 had been protected and it has not.

The Tennancy started on the 12/07/17, I have found out through the Court possesion order that the agent had placed the Deposit in a Deposit Protection Scheme.
I have had no Information on the Deposit whatsoever.
I contacted the DPS and the Deposit has been protected with them.
This has been done in a very underhand way. He had given a Ficticious Mobile Number and email address to the DPS. The Deposit was protected on the 08/03/18. Some 8;months later.
I have been told by the DPS that he has already started a Single Claim Reppayment for the Full Deposit to be paid back to him.
On explaining the Situation with regards to the Agent and Landlord she has stopped the single claim repayment based on all above Information.
can i still go after the Landlord for not protecting my Deposit .

561
Guest Avatar
David 30th April, 2018 @ 19:31

@Chuddy

I have seen that many times, some Landlords just seem to have a problem with deposit protection.

Even if it is protected now it is too late, it has to be protected within 30 days and they have to serve you with the prescribed information.

I really need to deal with you via the forum for your own sake.

Others contact me with no problem, so check your spam folder, Flossy said that you were replying via email which sent your replies into a black hole, so click on the link from the landlord forum. I know you registered properly because I got and replied to your initial message in January.

You message will be from Landlord Forum, it will include a quote from the message but to reply you must click the link at the end of the message

This is an example (I changed the numbers to protect the innocent)

Reply to this Personal Message here: https://www.landlordforumproject.co.uk/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;f=inbox;pmsg=999;quote;u=99999

562
The Landlord Avatar
The Landlord 1st May, 2018 @ 08:18

@Chuddy
I'm sorry, but you seem to be having an abnormally difficult time grasping the fact you have to reply via the private messages David is sending you on the landlord forum (https://www.landlordforumproject.co.uk/), which he's explained multiple times now. The problem is you don't seem to be listening :(

Once again, you haven't tried to contact him directly. All you did this time was go to the contact page of this website and submit an enquiry (which came directly to me). And then, after sending that enquiry, you once again replied to an email notification, which says "IMPORTANT: Remember, this is just a notification. Please do not reply to this email."

*slaps forehead*

563
Guest Avatar
SJG 2nd May, 2018 @ 07:10

@David

Hi David - I haven't seen my activation email yet - I've checked in my spam folder but couldnt see it so I've requested another activation

In the meantime, yes - I was the only tenant and my contract was a shorthold tenancy. I sent an email to her calling her bluff and this morning I received my deposit and a not very nice email along with it, although in the email she outright admitted that she hadn't protected the deposit.

Her initial email re: my deposit had been to try to make it sound like I owed her more than she owed me (which wasn't the case at all) and as much as I don't really like 'claim culture' etc I still feel very aggrieved. Is that the end of it now or is there anything else I can do, such as report her as a rogue landlady?

Thanks in advance :)

564
Guest Avatar
David 2nd May, 2018 @ 08:24

@SJG

I am glad you got your deposit back.

Originally when this legislation was drafted returning the deposit was enough, I remember cases where a Landlord would be in Court, realise that they did not have a leg to stand on and pass me a note to ask for an adjournment. They then handed over an envelope and the Judge would rule in their favour.

However, that wasted the Courts time and it created legal fees for the tenant, so the law was changed.

So now you have up to six years to bring a claim, if it is an open and shut case, then your Landlord cannot defend it, all she can do is ask for mitigation if she is say a novice Landlord, perhaps had an agent who she relied upon because they provided a full service or said they did all legal paperwork on their website etc.

Despite the open and shut nature of this I advise clients to think of the Landlord, generally were they decent if not a little incompetent, were they downright dodgy or just a bit of an arsehole? Did they fail to do Gas tests, leave you in a mould infected dump?

I can imagine her initial hostility was probably because of the bills and now that she knows you have her bang to rights, she is gutted. I know that with redundancy you will be very tempted to think "fuck you, this is the law and I paid your mortgage for the duration of my tenancy, if you are going to do this then you should do it properly". You also need to balance that with the bloody nose theory, if she is made to pay a sanction, she will not only make damn sure that she pays in future but she will tell her friends who are also Landlords to make damn sure that they protect the deposit, serve PI, get and EPC and Gas Certificate and give tenants the "how to rent" document.

Whatever you decide to do there are civil procedure rules and I can help you through those, probably get you a negotiated settlement that leaves you both better off than worst case scenarios.

Give the forum another go, I fear you might have registered for this blog rather than the forum or there was some error.

use this link and try again

https://www.landlordforumproject.co.uk/

I know it is working because others have contacted me from it during the same period.

Maybe check your junk mail folder

Once you have registered you will be sent an email to validate your registration, click that link and log into the forum, you may then send me a Private Message from the link below:

http://bit.ly/davidpip

565
Guest Avatar
Martin 2nd May, 2018 @ 11:30

@SJG

Definitely claim the compensation/penalty for failing to protect the deposit. She will have to pay at least 1x the amount of the deposit and rightfully so. You can totally do it on your own, I did it myself, it is pretty straightforward thing, you just need to do some research and get some free legal advice maybe. Just follow the pre-action protocol (check out what that means online) before you take her to the court -- if that is necessary.

566
Guest Avatar
Looper 2nd May, 2018 @ 12:00

@SJG

Try changing your email address, the auto system failed to send me the verification email too, even though I requested it numerous times. I was using a hotmail.com address initially and the system just wouldn´t send a mail to it (I checked Junk, etc), so I changed to a gmail email address and got the verification within seconds.

Cheers.

567
Guest Avatar
David 2nd May, 2018 @ 13:55

@Martin

That is good advice but there are some loopholes which is why I do offer to help people, both Landlord and Tenant alike.

90% of the time I am able to avoid Court action being taken and get the parties to agree a decent settlement.

The only time I do not recommend a settlement is where the Landlord has been a rogue.

Examples include:

Landlord breaking into property and evicting tenant
Landlord changing locks
Landlord registering deposit using fake tenant details which was fraud.
Landlord harassing tenants
Fake Landlords (agents hiding the true Landlord)
Deliberate use of wrong agreements (Licence and Lodger)

I even had a case where the Landlord was in a national newspaper on a GBH charge, he threatened me and my family referring to the article. You do wonder just how dumb people can be. I had written to him simply opening up discussion with a view to negotiation. Of course it was easy for me to find his Solicitor and I respectfully suggested that they advise their client. He ending up paying the 3x sanction and returned the deposit, he also got his original bail revoked and ended up doing 6 months in prison.

For Landlords I have had claims where I have been able to reduce or eliminate costs.

CPR is a minefield and searching may find you something, such as the pre-action protocol, but it will not tell you all the processes and procedures that you or the other side could use if the case goes forward.

I also advise how to get the Judge on your side whether you are Landlord or Tenant.

Sometimes I do regret offering help, I have had both Landlord and Tenant lie to me which has led to advice being given based on those lies. This makes it harder to help them going forward as it completely undermines their case. If a Judge sees you have lied once they will assume everything is tainted.

I have also had cases that have gone on for over a year when the Deposit claim is part of a much bigger strategy of claims that can cost a Landlord tens of thousands of pounds. These have run to over 500 emails and thousands of pages of evidence.

When I look at these cases overall they are often started because of a bit of a bad feeling, it may be a Landlord charges the tenant for something small and petty. In the scheme of things these are either wear and tear or just not worth the aggravation. Of course there are still some landlords who seem to think that the tenant's deposit is their redecorating fund, which is why the legislation was created in the first place.

There are claim companies out there, but I strongly advise to avoid them like the plague. First they take a third of your sanction under a conditional fee arrangement, but also their process avoids settlement, you may get your two thirds eventually but they will get huge legal fees and you will never get a positive reference. In two cases who came to me after they started a claim it did backfire and they then had to pay the Landlord's costs of £6k and £8k.

Had they done things right in the first place they could have avoided that, remember some Landlords have deep pockets, you can't predict the way a case will go.

At the end of the day, I can only offer advice, it is up to the individual to take it and do the actions required.

Legal action should always be the last resort but sometimes you come across people who are vengeful and seek to punish the other party, regardless of the merits of the case.

There is a further page on negotiation here

https://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/i-havent-protected-my-tenants-deposit/

568
Guest Avatar
SJG 2nd May, 2018 @ 15:58

@David

Thanks David.

I wasn't issued with a section 8 or 21, I simply moved out because the area was horrible and I sorted a new job so I could afford something nicer.

I have a copy of the tenancy agreement and I'll get a copy of the title deed. Do you have access to DropBox, can I share documents via that?

She was very hands off as a landlady and to be honest I didn't have an awful lot of contact with her. I did have a Gas Safety Check done while I was a tenant, but she didn't complete any kind of inventory or give me an EPC when I moved in

The flat probably wasn't in an acceptable state to be let out anyway, the stairs and hallway flooring was seriously bodged with bad laminate, exposed nails etc etc. When I moved in she said she would contribute towards carpet and I have this confirmed via email as well - I was pretty desperate to move and as she was willing to contribute I didnt see an issue with putting up with it for while before getting it sorted.

As I said, I did have a few outstanding bills when I left but these are all in my name and are being dealt with personally by me. I made it clear that I had a few financial problems due to being made redundant, but my rent was all ok.

I'll send you over my email address via the personal message :)

569
Guest Avatar
David 2nd May, 2018 @ 19:53

@SJG

You are posting on the blog not the forum

Best we discuss this by forum for sake of privacy and because she may be reading this page.

570
Guest Avatar
Chuddy 13th May, 2018 @ 19:10

David.

I have sent numerous emails to you directly. But had not response.

Can you please let me know what forms I need to fill in to put a Ckaim against the rogue Landlord.

571
Guest Avatar
David 13th May, 2018 @ 20:34

@Chuddy

I have sent you lots of messages but you do not follow through.

There are basic things I need of you, but you do not do them or reply, then when I chase, you give some excuse.

Then when I said I was closing your file you said it you were busy moving.

Last one was that your son was going to send me something.

It did not happen.

I will email to give you one more chance to get your act together, I can't help people who won't help themselves.

I really want to help you but you have to do your part.

You did nothing from January to May, then you posted too late to make a submission to Court.

Now you are entitled to up to £11k if you can sort yourself out, you have a means on contacting me privately, use it!

Better still, go back to the emails I already sent you with numbered things I need and get them to me.

572
Guest Avatar
sabrina 14th May, 2018 @ 19:08

Hi David

Thank you so much for your help and advice. The matter is now closed. I served the tenant with the settlement agreement and have subsequently paid the asking price for not securing the deposit in a deposit scheme.

I have certainly learnt my lesson.

Many thanks

Sabrina

573
Guest Avatar
Joey12345 15th May, 2018 @ 13:04

@David

I am a tenant with a rather complicated dispute with my landlords. Would you be able to provide me with some advice? Are you legally qualified?

As my landlords may be viewing this, I would prefer to discuss this privately if possible, in the first instance at least?

I have registered (username: Joey12345). However, I haven't received a verification email as yet.

574
Guest Avatar
Looper 15th May, 2018 @ 13:13

@Joey12345

See comment 567 above regarding the email verification. Might be worth trying.

575
Guest Avatar
Joey23456 15th May, 2018 @ 16:43

@Looper - Many thanks, that is precisely what happened (I had used a Hotmail account). Re-registered (now Joey23456) with a yahoo account and got the email straight away.

@David - just sent a couple of chunky emails to you directly to: http://bit.ly/davidpip

I would really appreciate your assistance.

576
Guest Avatar
David 15th May, 2018 @ 19:03

@Joey23456

Got them.

577
Guest Avatar
Father Christmas 24th May, 2018 @ 07:03

Hi David, I would like to ask you advice either via phone or e-mail please. We were sent a Part 36 offer from the tenant's solicitor firm for a lot more than her deposit...

Hope you can help.
Kind Regards,
Chris.

578
Guest Avatar
Daran 6th June, 2018 @ 22:27

Hi - I have recently had my tenant end her tenancy of her own accord. She has been renting my former home for a number of years, prior to the deposit scheme starting. I allowed them to renew the tenancy a couple of years ago and have never increased the rent. I was only interested in covering the mortgage. I inspected the property after they left and although some there were some issues i refunded the full deposit rather than get into a messy exchange about deductions. Now a month later i have received a solicitors letter looking for over £2000 for failing to put the deposit into a scheme. Where do i stand as the tenant has left and the full deposit refunded? I feel i've been more than reasonable as a landlord and this seems to be a kick in the teeth. Should i pay to save being hit with legal fees etc or should i try and fight ? Thanks in advance

579
Guest Avatar
Miguel 6th June, 2018 @ 23:08

Hi Daran, I had exactly the same issue a year ago. I decided to fight, I asked a lawyer to send a letter back and was enough, if you want, contact me and I can forward the letter to you and you can ask for some lawyer to send it to them on your behalf.
Miguelds81@gmail.com

580
Guest Avatar
David 7th June, 2018 @ 00:48

@Daran

I am happy to help you with this, I do not recommend you go into detail here as it is public and you may prejudice your case and negotiating position.

If you contact me via the forum private message system I will be able to assess your case properly.

We did provide this other page about negotiating with tenants

https://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/tenant-threatening-legal-action-tenancy-deposit/

HOWEVER, it appears that the tenant has already contacted a Solicitor or claim company, sending them a letter as suggested above will only add to your costs.

You will have been told by their Solicitors that you are NOT to contact their client directly under any circumstances and if you send a pointless letter or a letter inventing damages you did not assert before it will cost you money and may prejudice your credibility with the Court if it gets that far.

That is not to say that you can't negotiate it is just that there is a certain way with claim companies, I have a lot of experience with these and know the ones who are simply interested in ramping up their costs. They actually have several approaches which are a bit like chess, they can be traps that can give them evidence for the Judge.

There are a lot of factors and case law defences that I can help you with but I am very much a believer in not giving you false expectations. I do not know the multiple or the tenancy deposit amount, but I can tell you right now I am worried about your comment where you said

"She has been renting my former home for a number of years, prior to the deposit scheme starting. I allowed them to renew the tenancy a couple of years ago"

This legislation had 4 main acts, several orders and a plethora of case law, some of that case law was overridden by the more recent acts, but there was a major flaw in the drafting of that law too. Your initial liability is going to be based on the dates of the tenancies. depending on when the very first lease expired, whether it was renewed or replaced or left to become SPT and whether the tenancy you mention from a couple of years ago was renewed, replaced or became SPT too.

Do not quote the dates here as they may identify you.

As I said I am not saying to throw in the towel, I have case law that helps you defend the claim, but it is going to depend on your individual circumstances.

I suggest you contact me via the forum to give me more detail confidentially, to register follow the directions below.

Click the Landlord forum link above or this link

https://www.landlordforumproject.co.uk

Join that forum (do not use a hotmail as it loses them, yahoo or gmail are OK)

Click on the link you get via email

Login in to the forum

Then click on the link below to private message me

http://bit.ly/davidpip

581
Guest Avatar
Kat 7th June, 2018 @ 10:43

Hi, I am in a proper fix and could really do with some advice. I used a small independent estate agent to let out a house in 2012. I had the tenancy agreement from the agent but did not realise that I never received details of the tenancy deposit being protected, although the tenancy agreement did state the amount and that it would be protected in the DPS. This was something that the agent undertook to do on the landlord's behalf. I have had nothing but trouble with this tenant - late payments and now no payments at all for the last 4 months, no contact number, no key since the front door had to be replaced last year, won't allow contractors in to do work including the gas safety check etc. I had finally had enough earlier this year and issued a Section 21 notice in March. I then realised that I needed the DPS details and this is where the trouble really started. I found out that the estate agent had sold/gone out of business and so I could not ask him about it. I contacted the DPS and asked them for the details of the deposit and they responded that they had never protected a deposit for that person at that address, however they said that they did hold a deposit for a completely different person at that address. I provided them with proof of ownership and eventually got the deposit transferred to an account in my name as landlord. I then found that not only was the name different, but the dates of the tenancy were different, the amount of the monthly rent and the amount of the deposit were all different to what was in the tenancy agreement. The worst thing of all was finding out that the deposit was not protected in the DPS scheme until April 2015 - two and a half years after the start of the tenancy. I really don't know what to make of this, the DPS insist that no errors have been made on their part and that the agent must have protected it late and made the mistakes when registering it. I understand that this makes my Section 21 notice invalid and makes me liable for prosecution by the tenant. I have been advised to return the deposit to the tenant but that is easier said than done as relations have broken down. I don't have his bank details and the only option would be to send him a cheque in the post and hope that he cashes it. If he doesn't - and it alerts him to the fact that he could sue me (when he might not know that already), I could be in more trouble. So, I don't know which way to go. I do have sufficient grounds to go for a Section 8 but don't know if the deposit thing will go against me there as well. Any advice would be gratefully received.

582
Guest Avatar
David 7th June, 2018 @ 12:26

@Kat

Returning the deposit does not affect your liability and there is only one very small cohort of tenancies where you should return the deposit, from many years ago not the two and half years of this tenant.

It is also highly likely that you have a claim for damages as well as the performance of the contract, so I should be able to help you negotiate this away.

Normally I would advise you to take legal action against the agent and this may still be possible, do not name them here but contact me via the forum and I will let you know if that is an option.

The validity of your deposit will depend on whether the amount is higher or lower than the deposit taken, if it is short, then top it up now as taking action as soon as you become aware.

If not done already you need to give your tenant the prescribed information once the deposit amount matches the amount of protection. You need to do this a way that you can provide evidence for,

Post 1 by recorded delivery

Another by normal post at a different post office and ask for proof of posting.

Another you stick to the door with a video showing that

Another you video yourself posting through the door.

A covering letter saying you are providing this as the agent is not longer in business and you wanted to make sure that they are aware of where their deposit is in case it has not already been provided

The information you need to provide in the PI is listed here

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/797/article/2/made

It is not critical that they sign at this stage, but always helpful at the beginning of a tenancy as evidence it was provided.

You can use the clerical screw up by the agent to mitigate your sanctions, you can assert you are a novice landlord if you have just one or two properties or if this is your first tenant.

You also have the defence that you relied on the professional services of an Agent

The case of OKADIGBO vs CHAN is routinely used to seek lower sanctions where appropriate and your case is quite similar

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2014/4729.html

Note that this case does not force the hand of any Judge, it merely ratifies that the Judge has total discretion to take into account mitigation.

There is some debate about when the S21 proceedings start, some Judges will throw out one if the deposit was not protected and PI served when the S21 notice was given, other count the involvement of the Court as the beginning of the proceedings. So your notice is not dead yet, get that deposit regulated and the PI served, you will then have rectified any error.

Some may disagree with me but I always say that you should use S8 when there are grounds, with a delinquent tenant it is probably the best chance you have of bringing the debt down to under 2 months. You will still have grounds 10 and 11 and may find one or two more here:

https://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/section-8-evicting-tenants/#grounds

Such tenants often do not even turn up to Court or enter a defence or even return the acknowledgement to the Court in which case you win by default and get your CCJ.

There is nothing stopping you using a belt and braces approach, S8 only requires the two weeks notice, but the dates may be longer to get a hearing but not always, it varies around the Country.

With regard to the deposit, just accept you will have to pay at least 1x the deposit per tenancy. I am guessing that you did not provide a contractual periodic tenancy, so unless your contract had an open ended renewal that the agent got them them to sign, there may a second tenancy (SPT or AST) or even a third.

I will help you negotiate that when the time comes. In the S8 you can ask the Judge to give you the deposit held against the financial Judgement, you will also get your legal costs in your CCJ.

I am happy to help you further but I suggest you do it via the forum as you may prejudice your own legal position by putting too much detail here.

I have had some success with a mediator too, some tenants have mental health issues and are supported by 3rd parties. A rightly worded letter may get that helper engage and persuade the tenant to come to an agreement to leave and settle matters between you, including the deposit protection.

I suggest you contact me via the forum to give me more detail confidentially, to register follow the directions below.

Click the Landlord forum link above or this link

https://www.landlordforumproject.co.uk

Join that forum (do not use a hotmail as it loses them, yahoo or gmail are OK)

Click on the link you get via email

Login in to the forum

Then click on the link below to private message me

http://bit.ly/davidpip

583
Guest Avatar
Kat 13th June, 2018 @ 08:01

Thank you so much for your advice - you have made me feel that there may be a way through. I have contacted the DPS to try to get the record set straight and am awaiting their response. I will private message you when I hear from them and hopefully can move forward.

584
Guest Avatar
Vanessa 14th July, 2018 @ 22:36

I've spent a very long time reading through the enormous amount of advice dispensed here, so first up, many thanks for that!

I am a tenant and have a question about unfair rent raises. We've been here nearly 5 years (houseshare: 4 people in a 3-bed house, living room as 4th bedroom as too expensive otherwise) and after an initial 12 month AST, are now on a statutory periodical. The LL just notified me by email that he's raising the rent. The place is run down and already overpriced and we currently pay more than the median rents for a house our size in our borough as per the ONS' figures. I've pleaded with him not to increase the rent, but he's not budging.

I have read through a lot of the reports from the rent tribunal (sorry, forgot it's proper name) and think that we would have a good case given how run down this place is. My question is: say we were to win our case, what's to stop the LL serving us a section 21 after winning the case? Would it be a false victory, even if we did win?

As an aside, the LL has not put our deposit in a protection scheme, has not given us an EPC, and getting a gas safety certificate is an annual exercise in persistence on our part.

Thanks for any insight offered.

585
Guest Avatar
David 15th July, 2018 @ 12:05

@Vanessa

Has your landlord followed the section 13 procedure? A text message will not suffice.

Sadly you are right that you have little protection, however, as the property sounds as if it has been neglected and the deposit not protected, it suggests the Landlord is a lazy type.

Be aware that if a Landlord wants you out, then it is only a matter of time before that is achieved, there is no security of tenure in this Country except for the first 6 months and whatever fixed term with no break clause you can get agreed.

Having said that, chances are you can find a better proposition where you can rent a home and actually use the living room, not over occupy.

The EPC is not an issue for tenancies that started before Oct 2015 but from October 2018 it will apply to all tenancies retrospectively, except that the need to provide an EPC is at the point of viewing so it can't really be rectified without a time machine so it still applies only to new tenancies. Still one must be done every 5 years.

Your home is an HMO which means it has higher regulation on things like fire and mice or rat infestation.

In the Deregulation Act it brought in protection from revenge eviction when repairs are needed and the Landlord would rather kick you out. However, for it to kick in there needs to have been an improvement notice issued by the Council.

In some areas Landlords renting an HMO need to be licensed, check this with your local authority. Either way, I would call them and ask them to come have a look, explain that you have more then three households and you do not think the Landlord has complied with fire regulations.

If you can drag this bit out till October then you will have the protection from revenge eviction aspect, so if the property is that bad a report to the Council or even reporting it just to see if it complies with HMO regulations is a start. It is only two months or so away.

One has to wonder whether the Gas Safety certificates are being done annually and properly by Gas Safe registered Engineers, it is surprising how many of these are faked when they are pretty cheap to get done. Do not chase gas safety certificates, they are the one thing that can give you a perpetual tenancy. If at the beginning of the SPT there was no Gas Safety certificate in place and none was done for 28 days, then it cannot be rectified and the tenancy cannot be ended via S21, EVER, until you leave.

With regard to the deposit protection, if you have one tenancy agreement with all the tenants named therein then all of them need to at least authorise you bringing a claim, so I would get each one to sign something saying they approve even if they do not want to fund the action.

If you have been there for 5 years I am guessing there may have been several replacement tenancies before it went SPT, rather than renewals of the same tenancy, the latter is a one page doc, while a replacement is a full agreement.

So the deposit claim is for EACH tenancy, and EACH claim needs the authorisation of the tenants in residence at the time.

Be careful not to discuss too much of your personal details in the blog, use different names, dates and amounts, or contact me via the forum and send me a PM, I have explained how to do this in other posts.

586
Guest Avatar
BoatyMcFaceBoat 16th July, 2018 @ 08:11

"Has your landlord followed the section 13 procedure? A text message will not suffice."

Wrong. Rent can be increased by mutual agreement or if included in the tenancy agreement.

587
Guest Avatar
David 16th July, 2018 @ 08:39

@BoatyMcFaceBoat

It is really helpful when idiots make a stupid comment picking out a handful of words in a post.

They of course know that their comment is so stupid that they dare not stand behind it, so they make up a stupid name, it is the signature of a keyboard warrior.

It is more about "I do not like him or what he says so I will be a stupid idiot".

Whilst the parties can indeed come to an agreement, I actually read Vanessa's post carefully, particularly the fact that she DID NOT AGREE

"I've pleaded with him not to increase the rent, but he's not budging."

which clearly shows she is NOT in agreement

Also that the tenancy has already gone to SPT

I stand by my advice.

588
Guest Avatar
Fred 16th July, 2018 @ 08:40

@BoatyMcFaceBoat

Did you read the post that the answer was relative to, 585?

Vanesa, who asked the question clearly stated they didn´t agree with the Landlord putting the rent up, so it is not "mutual" in any respect. The Landlord is forcing a rent increase.

Whilst your comment may not be incorrect on a broader scale, it is not relative to the posters query.

589
Guest Avatar
BoatyMcFaceBoat 16th July, 2018 @ 08:52

"or if included in the tenancy agreement."

590
Guest Avatar
vanessa 16th July, 2018 @ 08:54

@david, thanks - PM sent.

@boaty, point noted, thanks very much.

591
Guest Avatar
vanessa 16th July, 2018 @ 09:01

ps: nothing in the AST about rent increases.

592
Guest Avatar
Simon Pambin 16th July, 2018 @ 09:05

Boaty, if you read the original post again, you'll note that the tenancy has become a statutory periodic tenancy.

593
Guest Avatar
BoatyMcFaceBoat 16th July, 2018 @ 10:32

A statutory periodic tenancy arising does not prevent any annual (or whatever period) increase if it was written into the tenancy agreement.

594
Guest Avatar
David 16th July, 2018 @ 12:37

@BoatyMcFaceBoat

Again you are WRONG!

It is all explained in the High Court Appeal below

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2009/1367.html

In this case, a property was let in 1998 for £7148 annually in advance with a provision in AST for a 5% increase, which the Landlord did not always use but rather made modest increases.

The contract went to SPT and there was no agreement to change terms within a year.

Then in 2008 the Landlord wanted to increase the rent to £16,800, interestingly the 5% clause would have taken till beyond 2015 to get to that level, but that is another argument.

The Landlord did not use an email or text, but used section 13(2) of the 1988 Act proposing a new rent. It was referred for rent review, but the London Rent Assessment Panel decided that it had no jurisdiction to determine the application, because they thought the AST was paramount.

What this case established firmly was that in this scenario the Statutory Provisions prevail, this time in favour of the Landlord who wanted the Panel to determine the rent:

"10 The solution is found in section 5(3) of the 1988 Act. Section 5(3) preserves the pre-existing terms subject to, inter alia, section 13. It follows, in my judgment, that a rent review clause in the original assured tenancy purporting to govern the position once it has been superseded by a statutory periodic tenancy is of no effect. The 'subject to' proviso excludes any rent review clause from the statutory periodic tenancy. In its place, the statutory scheme kicks in. Therefore, absent agreement regarding an increase in rent of a statutory periodic tenancy (see section 13(5)) the landlord must use the notice provisions on section 13(2) which then enable the tenant to seek an assessment if he wishes. As Megarry puts it:

"In short, for other periodic tenancies the rent increase clause prevails, while for statutory periodic tenancies the statutory system prevails."

"11. With respect to the panel, having found that the tenancy was a statutory periodic tenancy, it fell into error in considering that section 13(1)(b) was in play rather than section 13(1)(a). For these reasons, this appeal is allowed and the case will be remitted to the Panel to determine the rent. "

595
Guest Avatar
BoatyMcFaceBoat 16th July, 2018 @ 14:11

Well done!
You've got one right at last.
(Well strictly speaking it was Simon Pambin but you need all the help you can get)

596
Guest Avatar
Simon Pambin 16th July, 2018 @ 14:46

Boaty, David was right from the outset.

597

Please leave a Comment...

Nobody

Nobody

Landlord

Landlord

Tenant

Tenant

Agent

Agent

Legal

Legal

Buyer

Buyer

Developer

Developer

Enthusiast

Enthusiast


Your personal information will *never* be sold or shared to a 3rd party. By submitting your details, you agree to our Privacy Policy.

Popular Landlord Categories