Difference Between Section 8 And Section 21 Tenant Eviction Notices

Thanks all for useful comments/questions. My problem is that I have this tenant who currently owes me close to £3000 arrears. My estate agent put the wrong date on in the original Section 21 notice served as a result of which the application was thrown out. I have been advised to issue a fresh one. The problem is that the tenant has remain elusive. He is never at the address, does not answer to my phone calls and even when he agrees to a meeting, he would not turn up. It is therefore impossible to get him to sign the Section 21 notice. How do I solve this problem? Must the notice be signed by him? How else can I legally issue him the notice?

Secondly, I have since learned that he does stay at the address (my property). Instead, his friend who he quoted as guarantor is the one living there. How do I get both out. The 12 month contract has recently expired.

Lastly, the postcode on the first page of the tenancy agreement is wrong (N9 instead of N18). Is this a serious error that could invalidate an application for possession?

Thanks for your response.

Cyril,

1. The tenant doesn't need to sign for it. Either post 2 copies of the section 21 from 2 different post offices to the property- and ask for (free) proof of posting.
Or
Deliver by hand with an independent witness.

2. Serve notice on your tenant, whoever else is living there is not your problem (almost!).

3. The minor error with the postcode shouldn't make a difference as long as it is obvious from the rest of the address which property it refers to.

Consider using a section 8 instead of/as well as section 21, it might be quicker.

is a section 21 valid. It is dated 3 weeks prior to contract being signed. Unknown to us it was included in package of contract documents on the day. The deposit was secured in deposit scheme later in the day after contract signing. When it was included in packet technically the deposit was not in scheme. Will judge throw it out

Hi can I issue both... a section 21 and a section 8 ( Gr 8,10,11)... tenant living in seperate part of my main house .. 2 months behind with rent /bills / no deposit , this saturday ... would like to get him out soon as possible ... 6 months SHT comes to and end 27 Sept .. but would like accelerated possession so covering myself giving both forms?

Hi, I am in a situation I feel is nonfixable!!! Pleading for any help?
I have purchased my house a few years ago whilst living with my mother. I have moved out of the property 3 years ago leaving my mother as a tenant. Now my mortgage needs to change to repayment from interest only which means she needs to pay more rent. She refuses!! I have no tenancy agreement...I know Duhh!!
Any advice greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

I rented out my flat out 2 years ago but now need to sell it, my tenant is out of contract and is on a rolling month by month contract, my questions are

1) can I just serve two months notice or do I need to do a section 21?

2) I always kept her deposit in a separate bank account but after reading on Internet it should be in a deposit scheme should I put it in one now before serving notice?

I also think she is going to be a nightmare to get out I think she wants a council house! Any help much appreciated

All I can say is if she knows or finds someone who knows what they are talking about you are truely f****d. Some landlords really should use agents.

i have served a valid s21 back in april but tnant refuses to move
can i file a PCOL there seems to be a lot of conflicting info re this

hi. i have been served a section 21 notice as i was in arrears due to isues with my bank. i then contacted tds about my deposit to be told that no deposit was secured through them at all. i contacted landlady who then deposited my deposit the following day. after i had been in touch with people i found out that she couldnt issue me a section 21 until my deposit was repayed to me. i told my landlady who has now decided to issue me a section 8 also. i need advise asap. single mothe with a 3 year old and a 15 week old.
please help

I can help, however I do have an issue morally with helping someone who is arrears with her rent! Whether your landlord has made mistakes or not with the issuing of notice.
Please explain why you should be allowed to enter into a contract where you were given a house/flat in return for a sum of money each month and yet you have decided for what reason not to pay.
why should you be able to get out of not for-filling your end of the bargain.

Hi there have read this thread with interest, hope you can help! :)

- Tenant X is on 6 month AST ending 2nd Feb 2014 in one of our HMOs
- Tenant Y lets us know he will be leaving at the end of his AST and that Tenant X would like his room as its bigger. We agree tenant X can do so with a change to his current AST
- Tenant X is late paying Novembers rent. After we chase him down he admits his business is in trouble and that he is waiting for an agency to come back to him
about a job he has applied for.
- We agree to let him sort himself out as long as he keeps us informed about whats happening, which he does as long as we chase him.
- Decembers rent becomes due and we agree that one way or another he has to pay all arrears on a mutually agreed date. He says that is he hasn't got his job by then
he will have sold his computer as it is now on eBay.
- He informs us he has a job and his first wage will cover outstanding rent on the agreed date.
- The weekend prior to the agreed date I am at the house showing a prospective tenant round, Tenant X arrives in his brand new Mercedes as a company car. He informs me he is just getting some clothes together as he is going on a training course for his new job. We confirm that he can move to Ex-Tenant Y's room on agreed date and that
he will have transferred arrears by then. We agree to speak to each other in the week re a time to meet on agreed date.
- The following day Tenant Z calls us and informs us that the Playstation 3 we provide for tenants in communal area is missing, and the games they have bought are missing (Tenant X was the only tenant in the house when I left the day before, Tenant Z returned an hour after I left.)
- The same day I am showing another prospective tenant round Tenant X's soon to be available room. It is now empty of Tenants X's belongings.
- Tenant X doesnt respond to any texts, calls, voicemails or emails during the week. At this stage we do not mention the missing items
- Agreed date and time for meeting and payment comes and goes, so letter and email is issued giving a further 48 hours notice to pay arrears before starting legal proceedings. This letter is posted through tenant Xs room door and is witnessed by Tenant Z in a signed statement.
- Crime number obtained for theft of items.

By end of Tenant X's AST he will be 3 months in arrears.
I know we cannot prove he was the culprit in the theft, however I intend to chase him via small claims court for lost rent, all associated cleaning charges,
fees and fines under his AST, which by Mid-feb will be over £3.5k.
The galling thing is that he can clearly afford it - he's just decided not to pay, so I'm happy to pay the legal costs knowing that he will be able to pay them back.

Should I serve a Section 21 or 8 at this stage? I'm erring towards a Section 8 due to the time left on his AST and arrears currently due.
This will also be our first big issue with a tenant that hasn't been resolved by mutual consent, and this guy is clearly a con-man so I want to make sure he isnt able to do this to another landlord.
Any help appreciated...

Hi Richard,

There's nothing wrong with serving both a s21 and s8 and that's what I would do! Evicting someone with a s8 can be a long process especially if the tenant puts up a fight.

In worst case scenerio, the case will be drawn-out and the Section 21 might kick in sooner and give you mandatory rights to repossess. If the tenant is removed from the property based on a s21, you can still chase the arrears.

Hi,
Im a tenent which has been asking for repairs to be done over 18 months however little has been done to get these repairs sorted. I made thousands of calls to the letting agent to sort them but nothing came of it. Now because i have to involve the council i have been served a s.21 as i have now fallen out of my fixed term. i pay on time every month and feel its really unneccessary as i gave the landlady 18 month to get these repairs sorted which left me with little heating and enormous utility bills
is there anything i can do as im now going to find it hard to get the deposit for a new home and resettle my children.

Hi Nicola.

If you have been served with an s21 then there may be other reasons for this as surely any repairs would need doing before the property could be let to a new tennant.

Also why would you find it hard to save up a deposit as if the landlady is using a letting agent surely your original deposit will be secured?

Hello,
some very interesting insights and facts on this thread. Hopefully someone will be able to point me in the right direction.

We have a tenant for whom the DSS pays the majority or their rent. Tenant pays the remainder. They have fallen into arrears and is 2 months in arrears and has been on several occasions during the tenancy (now into its 18 month). We have managed to get the DSS to pay their portion directly to us. The remainder has been paid, apart from January, by the tenant.
Re arrears:
we wrote to the tenant end of Oct '13 to try and sort out a realistic payment plan for the arrears. Tenant agreed to pay £150 fortnightly. They have made only one payment in November and none in Dec/Jan. Also not paid their portion of Jan '14 Rent.
It has been a continual string of lies by the tenant stating that rent has been paid, arrears have been paid, but there is always an excuse, the bank/standing order yadda yadda yadda. In fact the tenant has never set up the SO as per contract, so they are in breach there.

Basically, they are now into a rolling contract, so am I right in saying that I can simply give them 2 months’ notice to quit the property? Is this essentially a Section 21?
Also, given the tenant’s unwillingness to repay the arrears am I right in saying the only way I can now obtain the arrears is via the courts with a Money Claim/CCJ?
I plan on writing to the tenant, asking for full payment of arrears within 14 days of the letter, otherwise I will be taking the matter further/to court.
Is there such a thing as a notice to quit + pay what you owe kind of form?
The tenant has 2 young children, I presume this will make it harder to remove given the council will need to find them a new property?
Thanks in advance for any help/advice as what to do next.

I am a tenant single mum with three toddler kids . I rented a bungalow over two years ago. I had always been on time paying the rent, and keeping the flat immaculately clean. I hardly ever asked for repairs or complained about anything.
Now I was served a section 21 notice asking me to leave the bungalow In two months. At the same time they advertised it for rent and wanted to show people around while I am still living in.
The estate agent did not give a reason for wanting the bungalow back.
I requested from them to allow me till to stay till the school breaks off in the summer, but they refused . I offered them an increase in the rent , they still insisting on leaving!!
1) what are my options here? Bearing in mind I only wanted the flat till July 2014.
2) can the estate agents threw you outside the house and get another tenant, even if you have done absolutely nothing wrong. Is not that discrimination ??
I look forward to hearing your advice
Iman .. Thank you

Hi,

I have issued a S21(4)(a) to my tenant who is on a Periodic Tenancy with me.

I have given her 3 months and 17 days notice (from date of formal S21 notice), 4 months notice from date of email exchange advising I would like the property back.

I notice on the S21 (4)(a) it says:
"NOTE TO TENANT
Where an assured shorthold tenancy has become a periodic tenancy, a court must make an order for possession if the landlord has given proper notice in this form"

????

Does this mean that I HAVE to take the matter to court?

Hi
I have a fixed term contract with my tenant with no breaking clause, she decided to bring a dog without letting us know , however she was advised by both my husband and letting agent if she wanted to do that she shoul've let them know . But she didn't . When I phoned her to ask her she needs to pay extra deposit for it , she started shouting at me on the phone and calling me names , and said she won't pay any bond for it , all I could do was tell her it was not right time to talk I will call her back , but then I txt her few days after and told i won't accept a dog in the house,
One month after she texted me and gave me 30 days notice that she is leaving , I texted her back and explain that's fine but she is still liable for the rest of the contract , she agin called me names and said she won't pay a penny , not even her gurantor ,
And she mentioned my house is uninhabitable and there is mould all over the house and there is leak in the ceiling , which for the past 5 months she never mentioned any of those issue.
And now she left, I was advised that I have to send a letter to her guarantor and make her aware of the situation, but my tenant txt me back that I am harassing her and her guarantor and bullying them , I need to stop contacting them .and they won't pay any more . And I need to go and collect my key.
Her partner which his name is not even in the contract phoned my partner and try to threaten us , because they opened one of our letter and read it .

And very cheekily she expected us to give her bond back.

Please advice.

Hi, Any help gratefully received. I rent my bungalow out to a couple. They are on a periodic tenancy and at the moment are £3000 in arrears. I have found a cash buyer who I am risking losing. I served them a section 21B instead of a section 21A. The possession order ran out on the 26th of April. Obviously they are refusing to go, so im running into problems. Can I serve a Section 8 and a new correct section 21A to run concurrent?. The tenants are on the high priorty council housing list but haven't even attempted to bid on any properties since Feb , so they are not even trying. I have offered to re accommodate them and write off their rent arrears, move them myself and store there stuff if they vacate within 4 wks!. This is a massive olive branch from me and they cant even be bothered to view the new property. I am facing financial ruin and a possible repossession as I am struggling to pay the mortgage. The wife of the couple has health problems although a lot of it is put on!. Im worried that when I go down the court eviction mode that they will keep extending their eviction due to extenuating circumstances . This is all putting me in an early grave!. Please advise me the best way to go about it. Many thanks

Hi im a tenant I have lived in my rented property for 5 years and just been served s21 for arrears of 3 weeks this is due to me having to apply for dss as I am currently on sick from employment for an operation. I have been to view and applied for new properties but every time new agents ask my current agents for a reference they give me a terrible 1 can they do this
My rent has always been payed on time upto 3weeks ago.

@Kirsty

It is not a case of "can your agent do this", it is more a case of it being illegal to give a false reference.

I am sure that your agent does not wish to give you a poor reference, indeed I am sure that they would be delighted to get rid of their tenant who is in rental arrears.

This being said, your new agent will ask certain questions that must be answered truthfully. such as:

1) Has your tenant always paid the rent on time? ANSWER NO
2) Is the tenant currently in arrears on their rent? ANSWER NO
3) etc.

From this you can see that you would not score highly!!!

@Kerrie

I Really do feel for you and your situation. Unfortunately your tenants seem like disgusting people who are unlikely to do anything until the day before the bailiffs turn up to turf them out.

The only thing I can say in these situations, you may have saved you self a lot of time, money and heart ache if you had used a letting agent to run your property for you.

Hi

When i met my wife we both had houses so we took the decision to let out hers. the first 18 months was ok and we had a sort of decent tennant, although when she left it took 3 days to clean the place a do a few fix it jobs.
We then got another tennant who has been in for 4 months and so far this has resulted in a smashed front door Patio door frame bent and the police at the house constant calls from the neighbours about issues etc. we did an inspection friday evening and during this we found a whole host of damage and this will run to a couple of thousand pounds. We spoke with our agent and we have served a section 21 as this will run to the end of the 6 months tennancy.
There is in this case a gaurantor who stood by for the said person. What i would like to ask the very knowlagble people on this site is do we have to let the gaurantor know about these issues as it will be them in the end we will be seeking to claim from if the said tennant vacates and does not put the repairs right. The reason i am concerned is we know the said tennant will not have the funds to do the repairs and we will of course go to the Gaurantor for this?

Many thanks for any responses

Sean

@ Sean

I would most definitely approach the guarantor at your earliest opportunity. They need to know about this to give time for the news to sink in and give you time to demonstrate to them why they are responsible (I can guarantee that they will say they are not).

I addition to this I would also get some quotes for the repair work and try to obtain the monies before the end of the tenancy.

hi

My landlord took me to court for rent arrears and the judge threw it out as there wasn't any rent arrears. They have now served a section 21 giving me 8 weeks to leave can i fight this if i can't find anywere in the time theyv'e given me????

would be grateful for any replys/advice

thanks

Hi John

Many thanks for your response, well trying to get quotes was a nightmare as she would not let anyone near the place and was never available. She has now moved out and we have now found the true extent of the damage, a couple of doors have holes in them, kitchen cupboards are damaged. and the patio door is fit for the trash bin. we have sent the agent an email detailing the damage and said we want the bond holding and that we will seek monies from the gaurantor, hopefully when we get the adresses and write to them saying our intentions they may cough up and pay the cost.

Am i right that to do this i have to send them all letters giving them time to see the damage, and agree this etc?

Thanks

Sean

Hi Sean,

1)The main thing to be aware of at the moment is that you initiate a claim with the deposit custodial scheme that your agent is using as there are time limits on this.

2)You also need to check the tenancy agreement to make sure that the guarantor is responsible for both unpaid rent and depredations.

3)Document EVERYTHING Telephone calls, letters, conversations descriptions of damage, photos, times/dates. EVERYTHING. Remember you need to prove your case to get the deposit if the tenant does not agree.

I have a married couple renting my house. Their deposit of £850 was rent up front. His mother was signed as guarantor. Their 12 month term ended a year ago and we've just let it roll.
I've since heard he's left the property. Is his mother legally still bound by the original contract as their guarantor If the contract was originally a 12 month one?
As of yet there is no probs with arreas. If I wanted to serve notice what section would I use. If I decide to renew contracts and request a new guarantor and the tenant does not renew but doesn't pay the rent and diesnt get out is the original guarantor still liable?
Mrs b

"Is his mother legally still bound by the original contract as their guarantor If the contract was originally a 12 month one?"

Depends on your guarantor agreement.

"As of yet there is no probs with arreas. If I wanted to serve notice what section would I use."

Section 21.

"If I decide to renew contracts and request a new guarantor and the tenant does not renew but doesn't pay the rent and diesnt get out is the original guarantor still liable?"

As before, it depends on your guarantor agreement.
It has to be unequivocally clear it continues into periodic. And even then..

Thanks. Will draw up new agreement and make it clear.

Any realistic timelines on Section 21 notices and the progressive next steps? House being sold through Estate. Long term tenant 7 + years - never missed a rental payment.Impeccable care of flat. Have reference from LL to that effect. Am at disadvantage now in London rental market. No UK family or guarantor. Trying to negotiate amicably with LL for time - but need to be prepared. Agent fees +++, may need 6 mos rent upfront. Applying for ILR for 10 year long residency - but have no access to UK aide, help or housing now. Am on my own .....

Hi. Have only just let my house out and am a landlord for the first time. My agents have managed to let it out to someone who isn't very nice, to put it mildly.

Loud music at all hours, screaming arguments, banging doors and smoking drugs.

The neighbours (my old neighbours and good friends)have reported this to the agents and the agent has advised me that the only way to get him out is through a section 8.

Just wondering how affective this normally is and whether I will be able to take any recourse against him for damaging the property (if he has)

Can anyone help me with my problem? I rent out a garage and the tenant is living in it and not paying rent, both of which are against the terms of our contract. He isn't an AST because it's a lock-up garage. The garage is miles away from where I live so I can't wait around till he goes out then lock the door. I do own the adjoining garage too so I could go into that one from the front and then through the ajoining door into the disputed garage and do what? Maybe I could play rock music very loud, would that count as harrassment?

I want to evict 2 students who are tenants. two months rent due. let them on good faith without any tenacy agreement. I believe they are counted as periodic tenants paying weekly. both are sharing a room. I gave them verbal notice on 2nd November 2014 to leave by 2nd December 2014 because I needed the room for my personal use. one of the student is working 6/7 nights a week even during term time. They refuse to live and now in two months rent arrears and refuse to leave. Can someone help me on this issue as to what I should do please. Thanks very much.

I am a private landlord.

For those of you who are tenants looking to screw over their Landlord... just think of the stress it is causing them having you leach off of their lives! Why should we support your lifestyle or be burdened by your troubles?

I am not a big company, I am just someone with a millstone that is a property. I have a house which I rent-out because I could not sell it fast enough to facilitate a relocation for work.

I have rented houses and 1) looked after them to an impeccable standard; 2) always paid rent on-time and in full.

So why is it my non-paying leach of a tenant feels it acceptable to not pay rent for 3 months and then start to claim that the house is unfit for purpose.

The basis of this (other than the fact I sent them a Rent Arrears Notice) is because (i) the 'wind' has blown down two fence panels (ii) there is a leak from the gutter; and (iii) the original architectural feature single glazed windows are not as warm as those in a double glazed property - so its my fault they have greater utility costs.

These are their rational for not paying rent for a third month.

So rant over... here are my questions:

1) Can I serve a S21 and a S8 Notice at the same time?

2) If I serve a S8 Notice... do I have to wait 14 days before I submit my application to the court for possession; or do I have to wait until AFTER the 14 days before I start anything?

I know... I should use a Solicitor but they are not free and now I am £££ out of pocket in lost rent.

Hi, we are the perfect tenants and have spent money on improvements especially in the garden. We have rented a house for 4 years but after requesting some new flooring in the kitchen, we have now been served a section 21 notice. We even offered to pay half towards the flooring. The landlord is very difficult and does not want to spend a penny. Do I have any rights here. During one inspection the management company even commented that the flooring was unsafe, so it was them who costed and contacted the landlord. They always report that we keep the house immaculate. I could really do with some advice please.

I am a tennant on a six month agreement, i lost my job unexpected and applied for housing benefit straight away and told my landlord. he is being difficult, i have three months left on my tenancy and as i write this i am 1 day late which will go longer while the housing benefit gets sorted (3weeks)he dose have 6 weeks rent as a deposit which i offerd that he can take and i wont ask for back ,"i made a mistake and prepared to loose that"if he serves me a section 21 or section 8 what will happen to me? and by the time my six months is up i would havecancelled any arrears i have accured.

My advice to any domestic landlord due to the new s21 rules is sell. It will possibly get worse over the years. The problem is if a landlord makes an innocent mistake with paperwork. Things stacked too heavily in tenants favour. Landlords rights have been systematically eroded to the point where it's not worth the risk in renting to domestic tenants.

I was served a section 21 notice on the 28th dec due to landlord selling my rent is from the 18th to the 18th If i leave by the 18 feb will I need to pay rent until the 28th I am on a short hold tenency for six months but have been in the property for over 2 years

How can we serve both section 21 and section 8, if they have to be in contract has to be fixed for Section 8 ? And for the section 21 it may be ended?
Eg; if contract has already ended in January the section 8 can not be done, but the section 21 can. Which section should we serve if it's already ended in January?
Many thanks

Yes Jenny, it is not worth it. Nobody is going to buy a property to keep tenants and lose money, especially from next year when tax rules are harsher.
The councils will have to find more homes.
Another thing, councils are giving out landlord licenses with their long list of rules.

I have issue 3 of the section 2notices, on the first was end of the tenancy agreement. The others were on the basis of the tenants behaviour and breach of the tenancy. All have been ignored by him, he is now in arrears and refuses to move out. What would be the best step forward now.

What's the actual process involved in a section 21? What does the landlord have to do other than simply issue the notice? Some articles imply it's as simple as serving a notice, but doesn't the Ll have to then get a posession order? What does that involve?
I just watched a video which implies that one cannot be used during the first 4 months of an AST; I thought S21s couldn't be used at all during an AST?
The video also said you can issue S21s during renewed ASTS? What constitutes a new AST?

What about a new AST with the same LL after a period on a rolling contract?

What about a new contract with a new LL in the same property?

Hi
Can any one help me, my tenent left in october 2016 , but now she has contacting the private housing team and told them i evicted her unlawfully . They want me to come done and give a taped interveiw.
Which i am not perpared to do as i have done nothing wrong . Will i get into trouble if i dont.
Can someone comment on this who has be though the same thing

My landlord want to evict me to move back into his property (he's returning to the UK after working abroad).

However the rents in my area are unaffordable to me (a single parent) in the normal private market ; around 1200 for 2 bedrooms. I pay 850 at the moment.

The council have said they will only help me if I'm evicted. I'm a good tenant and I always have been but I need secure housing. I've moved 40 times in 49 years and I so tired of always being one tick box away from help and security.

My landlord needs to evict me but I don't want to stress them or cause them hardship, they have small children too.

How do we best go about this the cheapest way possible please?

If I issue s21 and s8 with a month difference they will have different dates when the tenant needs to vacate the flat. So does he need to leave on the earlier date or a later date ?

Looking forward to get more information about how to deal with tenant. Thanks

Hi

Our tenant has been in arrears since the start of Covid. She receives her child maintenance in cash from 3 different fathers. When the first lockdown happened she said they were earning. Then in July she continued paying the full rent but by this time was in arrears to the tune of £4,050. She started claim UC and then again in January she said she couldn't afford to pay her full rent so is paying just over half. She has no intention of paying any more money. We do have a guarantor but he says that he is not liable. The reason being back in 2017 we gave her notice to leave as we wanted to sell the property but she caused so many issues putting prospective buyers and so we agreed to continue and renewed the agreement without a break. The guarantor (her brother) now says that as we issued notice that broke his contract. We don't know. Our Agents seem to think he is still liable. It is such a stressful situation and the fact that she thinks she can pay what she likes is so unfair. She says that we cant contact her too much as it is classed as harassment. Where is the help for landlords. Does anyone know whether the guarantor is correct please.

Many thanks.

Marina

We have issued our tenant with a section21 in Oct 2020 and was expecting he to leave on 6thMay 21 she now says the council has told her not to move out and we have to get an eviction notice before they will house her. We have sold the house as we are in hardship since she has fallen into rent arrears since COVID started. What can we do next?