I’m Evicting My Tenant

Tanya wrote this on 2007-07-10 09:58:10 wow, hey, sorry to hear... perhaps next time you'll only allow tenants in full-time employment? i'm not sure i would've accepted a tenant on benefits - with all due respect, to you and them, i mean, i'm sure there are many honest people on the dole temporarily due to personal circumstance or whatever (i could well have been one of them myself at some stage, though it never happened, thankfully, but look at j.k. rowling, for example). even so, if it's MY property we're talking about, then it's a different story, and i won't let anyone in who can't prove they are solvent, responsible, tax-paying citizens.

good luck to you - you deserve it. that's something else that pisses me off, is seeing how a well-intentioned chap like yourself, eager to do the right thing, concerned about the welfare of your tenant and even doing research on how to be a good landlord, should get screwed over by some selfish, irresponsible person who doesn't give a flying moneky's about anything or anyone.

won't even start speaking about the people at the council... other than to say that these people are just as uneducated as the next guy, doing their little job, earning under £20k a year, completely unaware of what goes on beyond their little desk space every day... pfff... 1

The Landlord wrote this on 2007-07-10 10:25:14 Hey Tany!!!!

Good to hear from you, it's been a while, innit, bruv?

Maybe i'm naive, but I think it's easy to get a dodgy tenant in full-time employment, just as easily as a dodgy tenant on social benefits. That's why I accepted a DSS tenant. There are genuine people on benefits, unfortunately I just got the short straw this time.

But to be honest, I'm not that bothered because I'll recoop my money. Homelet will give me 50% of 2 months rent, which will come to £775, and on top of that, I have my tenants security deposit, which is £775, so I'll regain all that i'm owed!

I just hope my tenant gets what she deserves. Moreover, makes me realise how annoying it is when people rave on about all these "forigners" coming over and start claiming off the covernment, acting as if Brit's don't scam their own goverment.

How are things, son? 2

Andy wrote this on 2007-07-12 08:08:27 I am sorry about your tenant and 100% agree that she is fleecing you. However the way you describe the problem is a little bit unprofessional and very aggressive anyway good luck with your debt collecting. 3

The Landlord wrote this on 2007-07-12 08:18:05 Hey Andy,

Thanks for your comments.

I'd just like to clarify a few things. Firstly, i'm not a professional, so sounding unprofessional is fine with me. Right now i'm an unprofessional, bitter landlord with a mental tenant. Bad combo, right?

Secondly, this is my personal blog, it's not a professional or business orientated site. I bleed my thoughts and opinions for what they are; if I started sugar coating my thoughts and was "PC" about everything, this site would be just another snotty read and another typical property site. I try to give my "real" thoughts and experiences.

I'm sure MOST landlords would have similar "thoughts" if their tenant did the same to them.

I don't approach my tenant in the nature I expressed in my blog; I'm genuinely calm and a little more understanding to her face, but behind the scenes...SHE DRIVES ME INSANE!

I hope that makes sense, and you can appreciate what i'm saying.

Once again, many thanks.

Kind regards. 4

John Ellis wrote this on 2007-07-24 16:38:03 After reading this forum and indeed many forums lately, I do sympathise with the landlords - they were good enough to let their property so the tenant should be good enough to pay the rent. Sadly some dont pay their rent and some cause a complete havoc to landlords and properties. Ofcourse this gives the good people a hell of a bad name and people like myself and my family cant get any where near a decent property. I and my wife had to give up work to look after 2 of our children with severe ADHD ( a job in itself I might add) and they are now on the disabled with another child on the edge of the same illness. We are a genuine family looking for a decant property but we cannot find any landlord to take us. We are trying to locate to scotland in to a large property but because of the capours going on with DSS we are finding it impossible.
We are finding that because of the fact of bad tenants on DSS - we are amongst the other good people that feel as though we are living in Nazi Germany and being persecuted just like the Jews. 5

The Landlord wrote this on 2007-07-24 16:57:02 Hey John,

I'm extremely sorry to hear about your situation- it sounds dreadful not being able to gain tenancy in decent acommodation.

I honestly have no problem with DSS tenants. In fact, I have 2 DSS tenants. In my opinion, ANYONE can be a bad tenant, regardless of their circumstances, it's just a luck of the draw for landlords. I've had good and bad experiences with DSS tenants.

I sincerely hope it all works out for you and your family.

Kind regards. 6

verity wrote this on 2008-03-13 16:17:45 i think whoever catergorises dss tenants is small and narrow minded!
the majority of people that have ended up in this situation have not chosen to be there.
i think that individual situations should be looked at by the landlord and previous landlord refrences should be requested.
i think alot of dss tenants have given the rest of the dss tenants a bed name and do not think this is fair.
im glad that 1 bad tenant has not influenced one landlord to stop accpepting dss tenants and i think the woman that has done this is clearly taking advantage of the benefit system and i hope she is made to pay beck every penny she has snorted injected smoked or whatever! 7

Anj wrote this on 2008-03-23 21:42:41 Hi mate
Im currently in a similar situation as you described above. im a landlord noob so have had the piss taken out of me by so called decent tenants.

These people moved in and paid their rent for the first 2 months between that time the tenant changed the gas & elec supplier without any consent from me. He also let the waterboard in to the property to fix a water meter without my knowledge.
To top it off he apparently "lost his job" and started to claim housing benefit without informing me. I only found out because the local council contacted me to confirm my name and address at my home address as i was not on the electrol roll.I bit my tongue and confirmed every thing with housing ben office hoping i might get some rent.....like hell.
I phoned the council eventualy as he did not contact me at all during this period and lo behold his claim had gone through and he had received housing benefit 2 weeks ago but no rent for me.

Im currently 1 month in arrears I have contacted the tenant he says he will pay me when only he and god knows.

im sure you know the feeling of frustration I wonder if you coild pass any advice it would be appreciated.

thanks

Anj 8

Debbie wrote this on 2008-03-29 07:03:53 I had a problem with a couple who i rented my house to in north devon around ten years ago. At the time i was living in gran canaria. My lovely neighbour reccomended a very nice couple over the road needed a place to rent as their tenancy was ending. Anyway they came round and seemed a really lovely couple. So we agreed a date for them to move in. First six months were ok then they started falling behind with the rent, delaying paying me on time and i was very considerate until one month a cheque bounced. I phoned them up straight away and got a mouthful from the women. At the time i was back in the uk living in my native county essex. The next day i got in my car and drove to devon with my then "Scally scouse" boyfriend. When we arrived in N.Devon i knocked on my door and she opened it with a very Worried surprised smile. Her husband out in the back room went out in the back garden shouted over the fence to their neighbour call the police. Police turned up as nice as they were they said i had to go as this was a civil matter. I stood on my doorstep looking at this scum thinking you aint getting away with this. It was freezing so i decided before i get drive back to essex. I had one thing to do so i got back in my car parked it around the corner and waited till around 5 the next morning. When i knew they were getting up for worked i zipped my jacket up and waited just in this ally way just near my house. As they walked by i jumped and smacked her straight in ugly mouth She didnt sound so cocky then. In fact looking back it was pretty silly thing to do as i got nicked. Got off with a common assault charge. Got my house back no damage. But they still owed me £1500 in rent arrears. I found out where they lived and and made sure i passed their house as often as i could which really freaked her out. About a year later i sold the house. I feel so sorry for anyone in this situation. Fortunatly i didnt have a mortgage as the house was paid off however the distress this caused me was very stresful. After someone said i should have gone in when they were at work changed the locks hired a van and had their stuff removed pref to the local tip. As there was no contract their would be no proof. 9

donna wrote this on 2008-04-25 04:21:26 Hello people! I am in a similar situation and was also lucky enough to be assaulted by my tenant! I can not sleep for thinking about the whole incident. This only happened less than 24 hours ago. I am 6 months pregnant by the way. I served a section 21 notice to quit to a tenant that has been nothing but a nightmare. Her contract ran out a couple of days ago and despite numerous letters and phone calls asking her and her said husband to confirm when they will be leaving the property...they never returned any of my messages. I went there on the last day as stated in her contract and eviction notice and she had the cheek to say to me that she was not moving anywhere and was shouting behind the door that I was harrssing her! I remained calm even hough at this point my blood was boiling, I asked calmly if I could come in to talk. Her husband opened the door five minutes later and as he was coming out of the door I pushed myself in. At this point he grabbed me and tried yto push me out but as I was half way in the door I got slammed against the door post with his hand pressing on my belly. At this point I screamed and shouted for my partner who was on the ground floor (as I didn't want her feeling intimidated I asked him not to come upstairs with me)that I was hurt. It was when the husband saw my partner (who towers over him) that he let go of me. I called the police and reported the assault. An ambulance was also called and I was taken to the hospital for checks toake sure that my baby was ok. I get the feeling that she is intending on using me to get a council apartment as she was keen for me to take her to court that way she gets what she really wantes. Like Debbie, I am tempted to wash her mouth out with detergent and give her a taste of her own medicine. I have never had such a nightmare before with a tenant. I thought I have been lucky so far. She is a professional, well a training Pharmacist with a face so lucky only a mother would look at twice.I just want this devils child out of my HOUSE!I have offered her deposit in cash and even extended time fo rher to find another place, but all is not working. Does anyone know people that will help me in moving her out (I know this is not the 'right' way), but apart from spending more money in court and being assaulted by them what other choices do I have? The law in this country is screwed up! Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Also do I file an assault charge on her husband? and can I be made to leave the flat if I plant myself in and stay there? Someone please help me! 10

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-04-25 08:10:28 Hey Donna,

God, what you're going through sounds awful. I can't even imagine, especially since you're pregnant; I hope stress doesn't become overbearing.

Inconsiderate tenants really get my blood boiling. The problem is that you're right; the country is messed up when it comes to landlord's rights. Landlords aren't allowed to force entry, they're not allowed to independently reclaim their property; they basically can't do anything without going through the appropriate lawful steps. It's a joke, because the "right" process is a lengthy and costly process.

The saddest part is, your tenants could file a complaint against you, because a landlord cannot enter his or her property without giving at least 24 hours notice to the tenant, which the tenant must agree to. Requiring permission to enter your own property when it's being occupied by someone that isn't meant to be there is ridiculous.

Funny thing is, my tenant wanted the same thing. She actually wanted to get evicted so she could claim a council house- unbelievable. And the sad thing is, she probably got one as well.

It's completely up to you which path you walk down- the legal route or 'the route that should be legal'. You can take this through the court and eventually get her evicted. But as we both know, it can take time and prove to be costly. Or, you could take the matter into your own hands and hope they don't try and prosecute you. I mean, I'm assuming you do have keys to the property. Have you thought about changing the locks when you're certain they're out? Of course, it's not the right way, and I'm not endorsing the method, but it is an option.

I hope everything works out, sorry I couldn't have been more help. Let me know how things turn out. If there's anything else anyone here can do, just let us know. There's more active people in the forums, so you could start a thread about this there, and you may get more help. 11

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-04-25 08:14:58 Hey Anj,

I certainly know the feeling of this level of frustration, and i'm sure everyone else in here can also relate.

I went through the exact same thing for 2 months and it drove me near insane. Fortunately, I got through the process quickly. As soon as my tenant was in breach of contract (by being more than 1 month in arrears) I sent a legal letter telling her to get out. That scared her off, thank God.

But my tenant was also recieving benefit cheques, but I didn't seem to be seeing any of the money. I believe she was using her benefits to pay off other debt.

Have you sent an eviction notice? I think that should be your next step. 12

donna wrote this on 2008-04-27 10:26:16 Thank you for your response. I have filed an assault charge against the both of them and as the husband is not named on the tenancy agreement and I was not made aware of him in the first place, the Police reckons he shouldn't be there. I am hoping that when it goes to court (the assaulkt charge that is) he will be asked to leave as he is not meant to be there and hopefully she will leave then also. My head is everywhere. If I change the locks and move myself in as my house is currently not livable anyhow and as I have a child and another on the way, would they ask me to leave if I am in the flat and intend on staying there? It seems insane for me to be paying rent elsewhere when they are in my flat... what are my chances with this and what happens with the assault charge filed against them? 13

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-04-27 10:57:50 Hey Donna,

Hmmm..the problem with taking them to court on that charge is that they can easily just say, "he was visiting, he doesn't stay there. We're going through family problems and are trying to resolve them"- or something as lame. It could prove to be difficult to provide proof to indicate that he is a perminant tenant. That's my only concern. You need solid evidence, otherwise you could be wasting your time and money.

Have you seeked professional legal advice? You could just pop into your local Citizens Advice for further details on your rights.

I was thinking more along the lines of changing the locks and getting new tenants in immediately! But as already said, it's a risky option!

I'm hoping that the assault charge could just scare them off. Make it clear that if they leave you'll drop the charges. I don't think a Pharmacist would want anyhing like that on her record!

Thanks a lot for getting back to me about this issue. Unfortunately, there are hundreds of landlords going through similar situations- hopefully they can learn from your story. 14

Glen Woods wrote this on 2008-06-19 13:23:17 Hi Donna and PA,

So sorry to hear what you are going through, Donna. I am in a slightly similar position. Bought my ex council house about 10 years ago and when I moved in with my partner I chose to let it to a trusted friend (haha) who was in need of a place to stay. We agreed he would pay just enough to cover the mortgage on the place. He was my friend and I wasn't going to be greedy, I was just happy the place was occupied and paid for. He has always paid his rent but my partner and I moved to Spain a while ago and I need to sell the flat to pay towards our house here. So, I explained it to the tenant who was fine with it, and sent a letter backing up my intention to end his 6 monthly contracts.

He had put some stuff into the flat over the 8 years he was there, new kitchen etc. which he did without asking me - I thought well it's up to you. Also he sublet a room which I wasn't supposed to know about. I did but didn't make a fuss.

Next step he announced he wanted compensation for the stuff he'd put in and for the fact I was moving him after 8 years and stood to make a profit on the flat! I spoke to solicitor who issued a Section 21 notice to quit. Now he's unemployed so told me he needed a court order to get rehoused. How stupid is that?

Anyway, latest is he's filed a DEFENCE against the lawsuit saying I always promised he could stay there all his life and he wants a 99 year lease! This is total crap. Of course he doesn't need to pay any legal fees. My lawyer says it will cost thousands to defend and require me and witnesses going to court. I phoned one of those specialist law companies you find online and they said it won't be so expensive. Any thoughts on that? I really can't afford to keep paying legal fees and I desparately need the money from my flat for the life we are building in spain.

I have been given hints by friends here about people I could send round to evict him by the other route but he is the kind of bloke who will use legal aid to prosecute. I'm tempted but I don't want to make a mess of things. So much for trying to do a friend a favour. 15

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-06-19 22:15:13 Glen,

God, that sounds so messed up. I can't believe a friend would do that to you. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

I don't think he has a leg to stand on, because he can't prove that you agreed to let him stay there for his entire life, and it sounds like a pretty ridiculous statement. Unless he can prove he won't have a case. Additionally, he sounds pretty stupid- there is no way he can claim compensation because the landlord stands to make a profit from a sale. Moreover, the improvments he made were his choice.

Did any of the legal advisers tell you what kind of chance you have of winning the case?

You could always take him to a small claims court. Whoever loses will have to compensate for the other party's bills. I can't imagine it would cost all that much. Also, you should try looking up firms that specialise in evicting tenants- they usually handle everything, and won't cost an arm and a leg

Please let us know how you handle this.

All the best! 16

Glen Woods wrote this on 2008-06-20 07:40:34 Hi PA
Thanks for your comments and support. After a panicky day yesterday on the web I have found a specialist problem tenant company who were basically amazed that my solicitor was quoting thousands of pounds. They tell me the tenant will have no chance in law - so long as the paperwork was done correctly (section 21 etc) - the judge has no power to do other than issue a repossession order. The only discretion he will have will be to allow the tenant up to 48 days before eviction. And this specialist also says it will cost 100s rather than 1000s! So seems I am in a good position. I have asked the original lawyer to send me copies of all the papers so I can pass them over to the specialist. It's still an anxious time but I'm feeling better than yesteday!

Great to have someone out there who understands the frustration and unfairness of all this :) 17

donna wrote this on 2008-07-11 16:14:08 Hey Glen

Sorry only just saw your note. Been crazy for me sorting out niughtmare tenant and incompetent lawyer! All I can say is that he has no leg or grounds to stand on in court and you do not even need a lawyer to process this case for you as long as your tenancy agreement is in order, and any deposits (if he gave any) was held in one of those ridiculous Tenancy Deposit Schemes, you can just walk into a county court or even download the form online and get his ragged ass out of your property! even if the deposit was not held in a TDS you can still put in a claim for possession, but it only takes a little longer and you have to attend a hearing where you give your side of the story - I can't believe for one second any judge will accept the claim that you agreed he could live in the flat for the rest of his life!

Good luck with the lawyer, but please do make sure they give you an actual figure for representing your case and not one of those "play it by air" nonsense that my solicitor trioioed to pull on me. You could end up paying £150 per hour for goodness knows how long. So please do be aware.

Good luck and I hope it goes your way and please do keep us posted. x x 18

donna wrote this on 2008-07-11 16:47:58 PA and all

Thought tp update you on my case...

After contacting a lawyer friend of mine who is a partner in a law firm. I thought it would be easier liasing with him as I knew him well enough and he would do a good job for me (please note he has getting paid - well his firm was). The idiot passed my case on to the mopst incompetent lawyer I have ever come across. This lawyer afetr my initioial meeting her and our agreement with fees and me paying hal the money upfront - she was meant to send one of those scary legal letters to the tenant to let her know that I was taking the matter seriously blah blah blah. I gave her all the dates, times and copies of letters that I had sent to the tenant including copies of tenancy agreement and section 21 that wass served. Can you believe she still managed to get all the dates so muddled up and her grammer was so appalling (I asked for copy of letter sent to tenant to be sent to me also as I was not liking what she was saying to me on the telephone). I was horrified when the letter arrived at my address and could not wqit to get on the phone to her and find out how she could have made such fondamental errors in the letter despite having all the information to hand. I said to her that if I was the tenant reading that letter I would be laughing myb head off as it seemed like a joke more than something to be taken seriously! I asked her what her next action was and she said she didn't know! I had to ask her to resend the letter with the correct dates etc. Please note that she never returned any of my calls in the 3-4 weeks that I had dealings with her and yet I was being charged for everytime she spoke with me or sent "letters" on my behalf. I contacted my friend and informed him of the appalling service that I had received from his firm - he seemed pissed off and must have had words with the said lawyer as when I contacted her the folowing day she was very offish with me on the phone and really didn't want to speak with me. After this phone call, I decided to write to the firm withdrawing my business and asking for all monies paid to date to the law firm to be refunded in full. I detailed every telephone call I made chasing her and letters that she wrote that I had to correct and her unprofessional attitude when critised or erors are pointed to her. The company offered to investigate the matter and go through some long winded process before they ca decideif to refund my money...I was not having this as I had written in detail down to the dates and times and durations of my conversations and meetinsg with her. I insisted onhaving my money back in full otherwise I was going to contact the Law Society. That soon shook them up and I got a cheque in the post within a couple of days with a report from this useless lawyer explaining her, but as you can imagine could't even do herself justice there either. Her manager refunded my money as a "gesture of goodwill" I was just glad to have my money back.

While I was battling with the lawyer, I did my own research online and found the form that I needed to file for possession of my property. I contacted the courts and spoke with some good people. So I went and handed the completed form in and funny enough the tenant was served a court hearing with a couple of days of me putting the form in. As you can imagine within days of receing that she disappeared, ut as she did not contest my claim and did not change her address, all her mail went to the flat which I kindly picked up and opened the mail from the court. I forwarded this letter on to teh council (my copy that is) to llet them know that she was still in possession of the flat as she has yet to to return my keys and there was a court hearing pending blah blah blah...She contacted the council to let them know that she had moved so the council tax bill reverted back in my name, but without any signed document from me agreeing that she has left the flat and given me back my keys all the bills were put back in her name. The court hearing is still pending and even though I have a new tenant in the property - I intend on holding on to the fact that she is still in possession of my property by stacking up the council tax bill until the couts legally grant me possession which to be honest with you could be another 2 months and at which point she would be owing me over 3 months rent and owing the council about 4 months council tax. And of course she will be responsible for paying my legal fees! This is revenge for the horrid treatment I received from her. Even if she doesn't pay me the rent owed, she will never be able to get away from the council most especially if she is asking them to rehouse her! There sure are many ways to skin a cat...sorry I meant Bitches like her!

I have learnt alot from this expperience and with my new tenant, I am very distant and not going into the "friend" thing at all, because you never know what auterior motives lies within them. At least this way they know I am not to be messed with and I am not their friend and this is BUSINESS! 19

donna wrote this on 2008-07-11 16:52:55 oh I forgot to say that the previous tenant will get a county court judgement against her which will go on her records (result!) and I am pursuing the assault charge also. I am waitig to hear from the courts with regards to the assualt charge an dwhen that hearing will be. Oh revenge my people is SWEET! 20

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-07-13 13:50:35 Ha, that's awesome Donna! And sadly, the only way these people will learn is if you hit them where it hurts- their pockets!!

I'm glad things are starting to sort themselves out, and especially that you have new paying tenants in!!


You've really had first hand experience of evicting a relentless tenant. What was the form you filled in, and what court? Was it just your local small claims court you spoke with?

What you've been through was so shitty, and i'm sure many people are going through the same thing. So if you can give me as much detail as possible, I'll write up an article, so people know exacylt what to do.

Many thanks for keeping us informed, Donna :)

I hope you gain posession asap. 21

Louise wrote this on 2008-07-17 19:14:25 I am a new Landlord. I contacted the council, to see if there were any tenants who would like to live in my house which had been our family home for so long. I was introduced to a very nice single mother who I was told was working, who paid the 1st month rent in advance, and the council held the deposit. This tenant moved in in february 2008. Since then I found out she was evicted from her last house for rent arrears, and was actually on sick leave, needing to claim benefit. It took from February until April for this tenant to actually complete her claim for rent, and of the £450 p/m that is dues the council pay £262. My tenant has paid a total of £50, she refuses to speak to will not communicate in any way, I issued a section 8 in May, and then the council suddenly paid, so she was no longer 2 months in arrears, I have told this tenant in person, by letter and via Text that I will not be renewing the assured shorthold tenancy that ends 22/8/08. I have now issued another Section 8 as the council pay in arrears and she pays nothing. I have had to pay the mortgage on the property for the last 5 months, which has not been covered by the rent and have no more money left, how can I evict her as cheap as possible I have not got 100's pounds to pay court costs and I know she will not leave willingly.

Please please help me 22

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-07-17 20:30:43 Hey Louise,

I've been in exactly your position before. It's horrible.

There was no need to send 2 section 8's to your tenant. If your tenant failed to respond to the 1st one with in 14 days, you can go straight to the county small claims court. The judge must award a repossession order if the rent remains unpaid and in arrears of over two months or eight weeks at the time of the hearing.

Your tenant will have to cover all your costs if she loses the case (which she will).

Taking someone to court won't be expensive. The fee to start a claim is roughly 10% of the amount claimed, up to a maximum of £120, which may be added to what you are owed.

You won't need a solitor, just proof that you have a tenancy agreement and that she hasn't paid rent.

I hope i've been of some help.

Good luck. 23

Louise wrote this on 2008-07-17 22:21:06 Thanks for that,I was told that I could not pursue court action after the first section 8 because the council paid sufficient money to mean that the tenant was no longer the equivalent of 2 months in arrears, I really want this lady out of my home, as I cannot afford to keep the mortgage up. The last Section 8 I issued gave a 14 days expiry of 20th July, how do I go about applying to the court, there seems to be so much different information available, any idea how quickly we can get her out? Also I live 150 miles away 24

donna wrote this on 2008-07-18 03:40:35 Hello PA, Louise and All

PA, answer to your questions as follows:
The form that I completed (can be downloaded online) was form N5 - claim form for possession ofg property (08.05). The form is very straightforward - so straightforward even my 7 year old could fill it himself and that is no joke!. The form is then taken to the nearest county court that covers the juristriction of where the property is located (note: NOT yur own address, but where the property is located). Do contact the nearest county court to confirm that the claim will be dealt by them before submitting your claim as this could further delay thiungs if sent to the wrong one!. In my case I found out that there were two courts that was listed as within the juristriction of the location of the property, but only one processed claim from the side of the postcode that the property is located - so hence I suggest yu contact the courts before sending the form in as their website doesn't say which parts of say SW1 they cover and which they didn't. To complete this form and submit it online cost would have cost me £100, but I needed to make sure that I had everything and had dotted all the I's and crossed all the Ts as the last thing you want at this point is for the form to come back saying this is missing and that T was not crossed, so hence submitting in person cost £150. My case is being dealt by Woolwich County Court.

Louise:
What I would suggest in your case is depending on how long her tenancy was for. Say for argument sake it was a shorthold tenancy for 6 months. You can just serve her a section 21, but this needs to be two months before the end of the tenancy. This is a much easier way to evict these low lives (all you haters there reading this ...HOLD your tongues!). I am assuming since you let the place through the council you have all your paperwork in order. This is so much more quicker that waiting for a hearing as you do not need a reason for evicting her under section 21 and as the council are aware of her situation they will find her another mugg to suck from. And as for your arears the council will pay you back as this was their tenant and they knew of her situation before letting the place to her or putting her through as a tenant. Do e aware though that you can not evict her before her tenancy runs out so hence using section 8 I feel in your case will drag things on longer than they need to. You are lucky that you are dealing with the council direct and not the tenant because as the council have taken on the respnsibility of paying her rent and they pay in arears, then I am confident that you will get your money back. You can communicate with the council via email seeing as you live so far away, but do follow your emails up (just print the email sent to them) in writing via recorded delivery with any relevant documents, that way they know you mean business and will not roll over and play dead.

In the event that your tenancy agreement is not a shorthold and you still have a long time before the tenancy runs out, then unfortunately there is little you can do if she remains in arears as I found out that even if she owes you rent and you get a court hearing date and she makes a payment of even £20 a week or a few days before the hearing - BRASE yourself for this....she is seeing as attempting to make payment and will be allowed to remain at the property. SHITTY! I know, but it is true as a friend of mine was in this position while I was going through my own hell. I suggested to her to use my method and just chase the tenant for the money separately once possesion has been granted by the courts. All you really want is for her to vacate the property in the shortest time possible. Once possession is granted to you teh council (in your case) will be liable for the court cost and arears. Do ensure that any communications with the tenant is via recorded delivery and you do not put the little sticker at the back with the senders name and address on it - this way she will not know who it is coming from as if she sees it is from you she may decline to accept the letter. You can do this and it is not ilegal to say to the post office that you do not want to put a senders details at the back of the letter. You can track the letter to see when it has been delivered online so you know if she has received it or not. You might also want to use a post office away from where you live so the postage rubber stamp doesn't identify you either (just in case she is a smart one, but most of these idiots are not that clever!)

I hope I have been of some help. I am happy to clarify further if any of the above is unclear. Nothing pisses me off more than people thinking they can pull a wool over my eyes or rubbing from me just because I am trying to make a better life for myself! Good luck and please do shout if you require assistance in completing the form. Holla! x

D 25

donna wrote this on 2008-07-18 03:49:07 Here is a link to the courts in the country... this should help in locating the one nearest to your rented property.

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/HMCSCourtFinder/ 26

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-07-18 13:44:50 Hey Donna,

Thanks a lot for that Donna. That's some great information. I can't thank you enough.


Hey Louise: Donna is right, the Section 21 route is generally preferred as it is simpler and often quicker. The tenancy agreement is about to end, so you can server a section 21.

I won't bother going over the details because I won't be able to explain it better than this very good article I found. It's everything you need to know about Section 8 and 21.

http://www.landlordadvice.co.uk/html/section_21.html

I had MAJOR issues with a DSS tenant, and I complained to the social housing benefits. They did NOTHING about it. My tenant was committing benefit fraud and they just sat on their asses. Since then I've refused to house DSS tenants because when things go wrong, the council won't help you out at all. Funny thing is, it's illegal NOT to report benefit fraud. Work that one out. 27

Cam wrote this on 2008-07-30 13:39:19 It's not just tenants.

In my case, my landlord is overseas, won't fix up things that need attention, etc. So, I am paying a monthly rent of £1400 for a property on a terrible state.

There is an intermediary lettings agency, and they see it fit to randomly wander within the premises at 8:30pm. This was barely a fortnight after we moved in. This incident really shook us up!

I want to move, but the lanlord and lettings agency know that it is not easy to find a replacement tenant - especially as we pay our rent way in advance.

So, when the next payment is due on 17 August, they can expect to receive nothing!

I wil agree with one thing though - Brits are bloody chavs who like to con and scam. Utter pariahs!

I really am pissed off, let's see things get exciting when I invoke my right to diplomatic immunity and hence become immune to shitty British laws which screw hard-working, tax-paying people like us. I might even want to make this a political issue - an international one at that! 28

DJ wrote this on 2008-09-22 15:02:18 Hi,
I am also going through same, my tenants also DSS clamers. They moved in three years ago and through the estate agent. Until they already in my house i didnt know them. But it was too late, within few months when i went first time in the house, the state of the house is terrible and same till now, few months ago they broke the Patio door and garage door. I have given them notice to leave from 31st Oct 2008 but doesnt look like they will leave. I have no deposit money and last months rent is outstanding. Dont really know what to do? Any advice? 29

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-09-22 15:08:09 Hey DJ,

Send them an eviction notice if they're in arrears. And inform the local council that they're not paying rent! The council are giving them an allowance for rent, so they're obviously spending the money on something else.

Have you spoke to the council yet? You could always get a professional eviction company to get rid of them for you?

Cheers 30

Cam wrote this on 2008-09-22 15:51:27 DJ,

If they are 2 months in rent arrears, you can get your tenants evicted. As they have also made a mess of your property, this is an additional ground for you to include.

Be very careful and make sure you follow the laws accordingly, i.e. Housing Act 1988. There's the Section 8 and Section 21 approaches. 31

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-09-22 16:39:30 Yeah, definitely agree with what Cam said.

Make sure you stick strictly to the law. If you do anything slightly unlawful, it's extremely easy for tenants to start claiming compensation, even when they're completely in the wrong.

It's all a bit backwards, unfortunately.

I would send a section 21. Read everything that Donna says in this article, she gives some great advice!! 32

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-09-22 16:41:49 Hey Cam,

Just out of curiosity, how are things with your Landlord?

Did you end up holding back from paying rent in August?

Cheers. 33

Cam wrote this on 2008-09-22 17:31:39 I'm taking them to court over numerous issues, from giving us the property in a terrible state to unlawful entry by their letting agency. Then, there are additional aspects, such as their defamatory and derogatory remarks - I even have this on e-mail! My wife was so disgusted with their remarks!

I am so sick and tired! I guess my fault lies in trusting these estate agents (when they said they were going to get the place done up).

Yes, we withheld rent recently. As a result of this, we received an e-mail from our landlord. Apparently, the landlord did not know anything and was asking me for feedback as to the conduct of the letting agency (which they claim to have just started using). If you want to have a read, advise an e-mail address. It really is a joke!

We moved to this place (Purley-On-Thames), as it is a good neighbourhood and all that, but we have had nothing but misery since. The landlord should be happy though - the place is in a much better condition now than 4 months ago when we first moved in - solely due to us. There's a saying, "Cleanliness is next to Godliness". 34

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-09-22 17:48:38 Oh wow. Sounds awful.

Are you taking your landlord or agent to court?

I hope you take those cowboys to the cleaners!!!! Too many people out there take the pi$$.

Letting agents are the worst! They'll be your bestfriend, and tell you everything you want to hear. As soon as you sign the dotted line and move in, they'll wipe your hands with you like yesterdays dinner.

To be honest, it sounds like a shambles. I'm assuming that both Landlord and agency are to blame.

info AT propertyinvestmentproject DOT co DOT uk. 35

Cam wrote this on 2008-09-22 17:59:09 Both I guess.

To be honest, I have now left it all up to our solicitors. As mentioned by Donna above, they will firstly start with a letter, etc.

I'll keep you posted. 36

Mac wrote this on 2008-09-26 18:36:03 Sounds exactly like a tenent I have now. Sent a 5 day certified (and verified received) mail with 5 day (required by local laws - Chicago (Cook County), IL. Pay or Quit notice.

5 days past. No calls from my tenant. Went to court today to file an eviction. Sheriff to serve the papers in a week. Court scheduled in three weeks. Hopefully end of story. I'll do more due diligence in selecting my next tenant.

ARgh!! 37

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-09-26 21:59:27 Hey Mac,

Yeah, it's so frustrating. I remember during this time I was pulling my hair out.

Are you sure the tenant is sill in the property?

The law seems a lot more tougher towards tenants in Chicago (which is good). In England, we have to wait like 2 months before we can even do anything. But your process seems to have moved along pretty quickly!


Fingers crossed that you'll get better tenants in asap! 38

Louise wrote this on 2008-09-27 05:11:01 Just thought I'd update. I managed toi issue a section 8 notice in July I issued it on hte day the rent was due which was a few days before I was due a cheque from the council ( they paid me directly not the tenant) That way the tenant owed oin the day I issued the notice 2 months rent. The notice was for 1 month, when she did not vacate I filled out the court paperwork which was surprisingly simple and paid £150 and was given a court date early september which again was a few days before a cheque was due. The judge gave the tenant 2 weeks and found in my favour with a CCJ. Apparently because I had issued the section 8 within the AST term they coould find no other way and would only give 2 weeks. Tenant finally left this week, and thinks she can hide from me and not pay what she owes, but I know what area she is in and will soon find her. Have learnt that apperances can be deceptive, and now have good friends I have known many years moving in.
Good luck anyone else who has this trouble and thanks for all the advice I received 39

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-09-27 12:24:18 That's great news, Louise.

I'm glad everything got sorted :) 40

James wrote this on 2008-10-02 17:53:06 Hi
Im a 1st time landlord and thought i'd the perfect couple to rent my house out, they said they wanted it long term which sounded great to me as my plan was to rent it out untill the credit crunch sorts itself out and the house prices stop falling then sell it in 2 - 3 years time. But hes just dropped a bombshell on me saying he has no money to pay the rent nor has he got any confidence in getting any soon as apparantly there are no jobs in this town. Basically the bloke is a complete fuck nugget and hes screwed me over. My 1st thoughts are to go to the house now and drag him and his little trout of a missus out and get new locks but having a quick look through the internet and googling some stuff the legal people seem to be telling me not to do this. What would happen if i did this? Does anyone know? I gave them a 6 month lease (found on the internet!) which was due to expire on 3rd Nov. Can i just get them out when their lease is officially up? Im hoping i can just turf them out when the lease expires but im guessing not as hes told me that hes been to the citizens advice bereau and hes got at least 2 months (is he blagging me). He says they could do with an eviction notice as his tramp of a girlfriend is pregnant and so with 1 of these they would go to the top of the council house list. I dont want to do what he says and give him this eviction notice if its going to give him more time in my house that hes not paying rent for. Please can someone tell me the quickest (doesnt have to be laegal) and cheapest way of getting the parasites out of my house. Thanks James 41

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-10-03 07:22:06 Hey James,

Unfortunately, because you're not familar with the law, you've kind of shot yourself in the foot.

Your tenant is right, he has 2 months. There really is no quick solution, unless you the throw the tossor out by the ear (which isn't legal).

If you want a tenant to leave when the contract ends, you need to give 2 months notice by serving a section 21 form (so you should have sent it by Sep 3rd). You can read more about that and download it from here

You can only evict your tenant if he has fallen 2 months in arrears with rent, and that's when you can serve a secion 8.

If your tenant owes you 2 or more months of rent, then get a section 8 form and take him to court if he refuses to leave. But definitely send a section 21 asap- as soon as he gets it, he'll have to leave by 2 months. I think you'll have to take a hit on this one, and lose a few months rent, unfortunately. I've been there before and it's a bitter pill to swallow; especially when the law prevents landlords from dragging people out of their own property. It's a joke, to be honest.

The best of luck.
Let me know how you get on. 42

James wrote this on 2008-10-03 11:08:57 Hi
Thanks for getting back to me its much appreciated. Its good to talk to and read about people who have been in the same shitty situation. This was my ultimate nightmare as a landlord. Just a quick one though......this section 21 your talking about does that mean he must leave by 2 months from getting the order or does it have to go to court 1st? Also can he fight it and drag it on for longer? Ive been on to the locksmiths and they wont entertain popping the locks and locking them out without paperwork giving them permission (pussies, lol). But hyperthetically speaking of course, what would happen if while they were out some vandal came along and super glued both locks while im having a few beers down the local? hence rendering them out of the property!! Is this genius or stupidity? Ive still got buildings insurance so i could get them both replaced. Let me know your advice. Cheers mate. 43

Cam wrote this on 2008-10-03 11:53:55 James,

Not a good idea! Do not do anything silly like getting the utilities cut off, etc.

Section 21 is like this. Say the assured shorthold tenancy (AST) is for six months and runs from 01 Jan to 30 June.

Two months before the end, you serve notice that you want the tenant out and that you will not be extending the tenancy. 44

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-10-03 12:52:07 Hey James,

I personally wouldn't advise changing locks, because then your tenant could take you to court. I mean, you might get away with it, because your tenant might not bother going down the legal route. However, it's your gamble. I know a lot of landlords that have gotten away with it.

If you serve a section 21, he will have two months from the day he receives it. As Cam (above me) explained, it's just a letter informing the tenant that they has to leave the property.

If he doesn't leave after that, then you'll have to serve a section 8 to evict him.

The difference between a section 8 and 21 is that a section 8 is served when your tenant is in breach of contract e.g doesn't pay rent for 2 months. A section 21 is served to inform the tenant that the landlord won't be renewing the contract and he/she is required to leave. 45

James wrote this on 2008-10-06 07:35:09 Thanks for your advice. I didnt lock him out i went round to see him instead and something really interesting came up. Basically hes lost his tenancy agreement and was asking for a copy of mine as he says he needs it to give it to the council for them to pay the rent. I havent let on yet that this is really bad news for him because i just want to confirm i do hold all the aces. Am i right in thinking that if he hasnt got a copy of the tenancy agreement i can lock him out or force him out and he hasnt got a leg to stand on? I could say there never was an agreement and this guy is in my house illegally. Ive got an appointment with the solicitors later but was just wondering what you thought about this. 46

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-10-06 08:25:43 If he doesn't have an agreement, you can basically deny everything.

However, he could argue that you had a "verbal agreement", which is just as binding. It will be your word against his. Also, the law is going to wonder how he got the keys and why you let him live there so long, if there was no agreement? If you say there was no agreement, he legally becomes a "squatter". Unfortunately, in this messed up country, even squatters have rights, and you need to follow a proper legal procedure to evict them!

I would definitely take legal advice from your solicitors and see what they say. 47

Richard Berelson wrote this on 2008-10-06 08:55:28 I'm no expert but I think that if your tenant can prove he has already paid you some rent on a monthly basis then, even without a written tenancy agreement, a court will assume a 6 month monthly contract is in place from the earliest proveable rent payment and judge the case accordingly.

I sympathise with your problem. Right now I'm taking a tenant to court because he has been advised by his local council that he won't get rehoused (he's now unemployed) unless he defends his eviction notice. All at the taxpayers expense for him, of course. It's costing me a fortune to 'prove' that I never offered him a 99 year lease (which of course I didn't. That's his totally made-up defence which will be kicked out by the judge. He already has a 6 monthly contract. Duh.)

Anyway, tempting though it has been to take short cut routes to get the little sods out (believe me I've considered them all) I would advise caution and the legal, slow routes. It can be costly and frustrating but the law will more quickly jump to your tenant's assistance than yours if you bend the rules. It's unfair and crappy but I've learnt that's how it is. All the best. 48

femi wrote this on 2008-10-08 14:10:40 hello i really need advice. i have a flat that i let out by the room. 5 weeks ago my handyman came to me begging to be allowed to stay in a room that was empty. his house that he was staying in was going to be repossessed the next day and he had done nothing to secure a new room (even though he had plenty of notice). i stupidly allowed him to stay after much begging. he paid noo deposit, there was no tenancy agreement and i did not give him a receipt. all i did was give him a key and he promised to pay the deposit weekly. since then he has paid only the weekly rent of £70 and no deposit. i personally now need the room cos my house that i live in has been repossessed. can i just change the lock to the front door, move his stuff out of the room and move in, would i be able to get away with that, thanks for your help. 49

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-10-08 17:42:35 Hey Femi,

You made a verbal agreement and you have received rent from him, along with giving him keys, so unfortunately he does have rights.

You can try changing the locks and moving his stuff out, but he could try and go down the legal route to claim compensation.

At the end of the day, it will be your word against his in court. So you could say that you only agreed to let him stay for a few weeks...etc.

Then again, he might not even bother going through the court because there are no contracts, and he may think it's too hard to win his case.

It's always best to do things legally, but it's really your call. 50

Jim wrote this on 2008-10-21 13:15:33 Hi
My tenant is 11 weeks in arrears with the rent and im going to serve him with some sort of eviction form. should i chose the section 8 or the section 21? Does the section 8 have to go through the courts or does it just mean he has 14 days to get out? Please help
Many thanks 51

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-10-21 13:45:14 Hi Jim,

You need to serve a section 8. More details here

Kind regards 52

Cam wrote this on 2008-10-22 11:03:58 Finally got a hearing date - 8th Dec.

I hope this serves as an impetus to all short-changed tenants out there (the good guys).

You do not have to be afraid of unethical/immoral/corrupt landlords & letting agencies.

Make use of the courts! 53

Glen Woods wrote this on 2008-10-24 12:52:49 Hi Folks, can I get some feedback on this mess...?

I have been trying to evict my tenant for ages now. I wrote here a while back explaining that he was a 'friend' (haha) who I let rent my flat when i moved abroad, at the cost of the mortgage. He got funny when, after 10 years, I have decided to sell the flat. I served a Section 28 using a specialist solicitor but he put in a defence - claiming that I had promised him the flat for life (a 99 year lease!) He has no documents, nothing to prove this as it is a total lie.

Today was a court hearing. my solicitor used a barrister. The tenant never even bothered to turn up and neither did his solicitor (he is claiming legal aid as he's now unemployed). You would have thought the judge would grant a reposession order but, no, he noted that the tenant claims to suffer from depression on his defence (poor sod) so he has called for a trial in March next year! So, tenant lies, doesn't show up at the hearing, wastes everyone's time, and gets rewarded with another 6 months in my flat.

I cannot afford to take this to trial. I am told it will cost up to £8000 and I have already paid out £2000 so far. I am desperate to know what to do next, I am making no money from the flat as the rent (paid by the State) only covers the mortgage. I thought today would be an end to this but it just gets worse. What the hell can I do? 54

sam wrote this on 2008-10-28 07:01:22 Can anyone please help me with any information to do with life tenants?

Quick run down on my situation, my Dad passed away some 8 years ago leaving his house to myself and my Brother, but, my Aunt was living at his home as she was chucked out of her home by her Husband, my Dads Brother, my Dad taking her in as he felt guilty about the way in which his Brother had treated his wife. No problem there. As I said Dad passed away left the house to my Brother and I but left her as a life tenant, in the will it states that she must pay all out goings and keep the place in good condition at all times, wear and tear included etc etc.

My Brother found out by mistake that she hasn't been paying the mortgage, yes for the last 8 years. Now if the will states that she should pay all out goings doesn't this include the mortgage? And if so how come she's been allowed to get away with not paying it only the interest.

If anyone can help on this one I would be very grateful, there is however more to this story.

Thank You 55

bob wrote this on 2008-10-30 00:07:32 our taxpayers money goes into paying your mortgage?

thats not fair either! 56

julie wrote this on 2008-11-04 13:05:43 im landlady myself and i totally agree with you. my last tenant was on benefits, she had her rent payed for her but still she was behind on rent. it makes you wonder what they are spending it on. iv had nothing but trouble and worry with her. i work full time while she sits on her arse and exspects us to pay for her living. iv nothing agaist people on benefits or on the sick but if your fit enough to work then bloody work! when i finally got her out the house (by bribing her with money) she is now threatening to take me to court because the council wont rehome her. so now thats my problem!! you try to help some one then it get thrown back in your face....i blame the govorment. 57

jedd wrote this on 2008-11-24 08:43:57 hi i have nighmare tenants who keep 5 dogs and even have had a horse in the back garden yes a horse have contacted everyone i know local council rspca enviromental health the police no one cares im gatting grief from the neighbours as they are a pest abusive and noisy the police ar regular visitors,they have wrecked my house and now they have stopped paying the rent as she has started working and says she now has to have anew claim proceced in the mean time i am frantic what can i do im out of money a first time letter and am at my witts end can anyone help me want these out on street they are not fit to live amongs decent people !!! 58

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-11-24 09:11:30 Hey Jedd,

A horse? Your tenant sounds insane!
Have you sent them an eviction notice yet? That's the first thing you should do. You need to get a section 21- they will have 2 weeks to respond, from the day they receive the notice.

Kind regards 59

Orthodoc wrote this on 2008-11-29 01:24:31 Hi all
I am in a similar situation. My tenants stopped paying after 2 months. When I contacted them, they gave the credit crunch excuse. After reading on forums, since the 12 months initial shorthold tenancy was still running, I prepared and served a section 8 notice citing grounds 8, 10 and 11. I also sent them a rental diary all by special mail for which I have proof of delivery. 2 weeks down the line, I am not able to contact the tenants. Their mobiles are switched off. They do not respond to text messages or answer phone messages.
Interestingly, my neighbour tells me that they donot see anyone in the house. My problem is that I can't contact the tenants and hence donot know whether they have actually vacated or are intentionally staying away for a short period. What should I do next? Should I hand deliver an inspection notice and check inside the house? Will this amount to tresspassing (since a section 8 notice has already been served)? Or should I just go in and change the locks? or should I still approach the court for a possession order and wait for 3-4 months? Any comments welcome. Thanks in anticipation 60

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-11-29 03:00:44 Hey Orthodoc,

Legally, you're not allowed to enter the property without giving 24 hours notice and seeking permission. So drop round the inspection notice, and then revisit 24+ hours later.

However, if I were you, when dropping off the notice, look around from outside. Look through the windows and look for life...

I wouldn't just enter and change the locks- that's illegal. They could be waiting for you to enter without permission (they may be clued up on the law), so they get the law on their side.

I would play it safe, personally. Go there, snoop out the place, and hand deliver an inspection notice.

Good luck, and please keep us informed. 61

Orthodoc wrote this on 2008-11-29 13:04:06 Thanks Property Amateur
I will do that and let you know what happens
Regards 62

paddy wrote this on 2008-12-01 15:47:05 hi
ive been a landlord foe 20 odd years and seen and heard it all.

I used to get real angry when this sort of thing happens but in the end it just eats you up.

you have to realise there are loads of fucking arseholes out there that dont give a fuck how much grief they cause. I had one who was 3 months in arrears then, can you believe this. Sub let it to a load of drug addicts who wrecked the property it cost 12 k to refurbish it.
I was so angry i forced entry when they were out. Paid a man and a lorry to empty the whole lot. Cost me £400.00 Everthing they owned. Took it all to the local tip, flat screen hi fi whole lorry load, Tipped it up good riddance. Changed the locks and waited for the phone calls. took about 2 hours then boy did the phone ring. Wheres all our our stuff they screamed. Down the fucking tip you low life. take me to court if you like.

Still waiting to hear.

risky but sometimes you just have to step up to the plate and take whats coming.

good luck

Paddy 63

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-12-01 23:22:17 Hey Paddy,

Man, what you did was ballsy!!! I guess some times you have no choice, and you have to bite the bullet and take things into your own hands. The most fucked up thing is how much protection tenants have. It's ridiculous.

I personally wouldn't recommend changing locks and throwing their stuff away, but good on ya- from the sounds of things, they deserved it :)

How long ago did this all happen? I mean, if it was recent, they still might try to take action, right? Or has it been long enough to assume that they've moved on, and ruining someone else's life?

Many thanks 64

Cam wrote this on 2008-12-02 05:49:46 Paddy,

Firstly, I do not believe your story. Secondly, I am sure that there are equally as many bad landlords out there.

You have shown yourself to be one!

Anyway, if it was me, I would have gone to the police and got them to force re-entry (being a tenant in contract). I would then sue you, and got you to issue a public apology in the papers. 65

Orthodoc wrote this on 2008-12-02 11:50:41 Hi Property Amateur
Further to my previous post, I sent them a letter asking them to contact me within the next 14 days.
However on calling up the council, I am told that the tenants informed the council that they have moved out of the house mid last month. They cannot divulge any further information. Can this be considered as surrender of tenancy? Do I have to go through a full abandonment procedure or court possession procedure if I am not too keen on going after them to collect the rental arrears? Shall I enter and change the locks this weekend? Your advice in this regard very much appreciated. Any comments welcome. Kind Regards 66

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-12-02 12:41:57 Hey Orthodoc,

If the council have told you they have moved out, I would definitely go in and change the locks (especially if you're not bothered about the arrears).

Just make sure you keep track of everything. For example, take down the time/date of when the council told you they had vacated, and note down the person's name of who told you they had left (if you have those details). And keep a copy of all the letters you sent, and the dates you sent them.

Did you send them a letter saying you were going to perform an inspection? You're entitled to do that, as long as you give them 24 hours notice. Then you have a reason to enter!

These are all procedures I would take, just to cover my back.

Hope everything works out! Fingers crossed they left the property in a decent state! 67

Cam wrote this on 2008-12-02 12:55:57 Hi Orthodoc,

Make sure you get everything in writing from the council! FYI, at present, all telephone calls (mobile, etc.) are recorded for 12 months, so you can always use this if you need to prove anything. I should know - I am in the telecoms industry. Saying that, there's nothing like a written record.

In the meantime, I suggest you continue with a Section 8, Clauses 8, 10 and 11. It costs £150 (not really a hole in the pocket) to get the local court to issue a hearing, and you can easily get the relevant forms doing a Google search.

Hope this helps. 68

Orthodoc wrote this on 2008-12-02 21:50:04 Many thanks Property amateur and Cam
I have written to the council to give whatever they said in writing.
I have noted the timings of the phone calls and their names
Cam, as you mentioned I will find out the relevant forms for a possession order
Property amateur, I have sent them the notice for an inspection the coming weekend
Over the weekend, I am going to get independent witnesses and enter the house for an inspection. I will take pictures indicative of abandonment. If there are any I will paste the 2 weeks notice on the door and then change locks.
Does that sound like a plan?!
I will let you know how I get on
Many thanks
Orthodoc 69

Donna wrote this on 2008-12-03 00:02:45 Hello my people!

It's me Donna I'm back! Have been away for a while and I see alot has happened. I gave birth to a gorgeous little diva four weeks ago so hence the silence. I have had both hands tied up changing diapers, feeding and staying up all night as one does with a little one. Not complaining as I feel blessed, but I want ya all to know that I am here once again to help you kick those low life tenants to the dump yard where they belong!

Messagefor Orthodoc: First thing first, I am glad the losers are out of your property. One thing to note for the future though is the council can not and should not just take the words of the tenants that they have moved out i.e council tax reasons - the council will revert the bill for that property back in your name and you will be responsible for paying the council tax from the date they gave the council that they vacated the property. I would ask the council if they had anything in writing i.e a handover of property to landlord form which should be signed by both tenants and landlord when a tenant vacates a property. This is handy for settling disputes about when tenants left the property and who is responsible for paying all relevant bills i.e water rate, electricity, gas and water. If and from the sound of things you did not sign anything to that effect then as far as you are concerned the tenants are still resident at the property and they are responsible for all bills until you can confirm that they have left the property. I'm only saying this as sometimes these serial rent dodgers lie so they don't have to pay any outstanding bills - shocking I know, but I've seen it happen.

Once you've got confirmation that they have left for definite, to avoid being labelled with paying their bills I would insist that the council put the council tax back in their name until you have proof that they have left. They the council should put this back in their name, which then gives you time to sort the property out and find ourself a new tenant. Only let the council know that you only found the property empty a week or so prior to letting it to the new tenant - you need to notify they of this update a week before you let them know of the new tenant...this way you are not charged unnecessarily for an empty property.

Cam might hate me for this, but hey what do I care?! I had the name of the sad bitch that I let my property to back on the council tax for a good six months after she vacated the property. Seeing as I will not be getting any of my money owed from the cow...this way she gets a CCJ against her name via the council - i know she has got this as I saw the court hearing or verdict that was sent to the property. When I am good and ready, I will notify the council of her new address which I got by chance from the letter she sent to court prior to my hearing that she had moved. As far as I'm concerned there is nothing to prove that she notified me that she vacated the property when she said she did. Sorry Cam this may not sound like your way of kicking ass, but I tell you it sure gives me so much pleasure knowing her credit rating being f.....d up as we speak (she says it with glee and rubbing hands together...)

Back to you Orthodoc: I won't bother getting another form and paying £150 to the courts. Go to the property with your independent witness, if evidence shows they have left then change the locks. Chances are they have left and probably sucking someone oneelses blood. Good luck and do holla if you need further assistance.

Donna 70

Cam wrote this on 2008-12-03 03:24:47 Hi Donna,

Congrats!!!

Agree with most of what you say.

But, I feel it's best to continue with a Section 8. This way, one is following the law and as long as there's a valid tenancy agreement in place, irrespective of whether the tenants have moved on or not, they're still liable for taxes/bills - unless both landlord and tenant terminate the agreement.

I feel it's best to just follow the letter of the law - so as to not get bit on the backside!

If you're going to inspect the place, send a 24-hour notice by registered mail. If delivered, you know someone received it. If not delivered, do it again. This is somewhat indicative that the property is empty. Then go there yourself with a few friends. Better still, get the police to go there with you, under the pretext that you're concerned if something untoward might have happened as you've not heard from them in ages.

A bit of extra effort, but I feel well worth it.

I really am surprised that there exist such tenants in the UK.

I hope I'm impartial (or at least am trying to be) as I'm both a landlord (overseas properties, if anyone wants to go on a ski trip or a tropical holiday, let me know :P) and a tenant here in the UK.

My experience with the landlord in Cambridge was good - an impeccable man and a decent intermediate agency as well.

We moved back south as we needed to be nearer to our offices, clients and Heathrow airport for business trips. We chose Purley-on-Thames. It's been a nightmare since. Now I understand why people here pay rent monthly! And not quarterly, bi-annually or annually (which I believe to be the norm).

Next Monday, we have the court hearing. We have decided not to settle for anything but to make this into a full trial.

Watch this space! 71

Cam wrote this on 2008-12-03 03:30:06 Just to add...

I'm not too keen on the idea of changing locks. If you really want to do this, get the police to go with you (make up a valid excuse e.g. no contact and you're concerned for your tenant - lol). This forced entry will justify a change of locks, especially as you have the police as witness now. 72

Sara wrote this on 2008-12-03 16:02:06 Hi All
Does anybody know if my tenants will be given a council property if I evict them for not paying their rent. The tenants are a couple in their 50's. Seem so nice at first and then after a few months asked me to write them a letter for the council to say I'm selling the property and want them out. I wouldn't do that so they got themselves a big whopping dog and asked if now I would write them a letter for council. I told them I wanted the dog out of the property by the end of the month(October) or I would not re-new their aggreement in February and they would have to leave. They still have the dog. They then stopped paying the rent and told me they love my house and they have no problem with me but could no longer pay their rent so I should take legal action. I have sent them a section 8 notice and they just signed it and sent it back. This month they will owe me over £1500 and they just don't give a crap. I can't sleep at night because I know they are using me to get themselves a council house and whilst they are doing this I am struggling to make ends meat and support my own family. I am at the moment working to pay the mortgage and insurance on a that property and run my own home and children when they are living in my property for free with no kids to support. Please somebody tell me they wont get a council property for doing this. I understand why people want council properties but there is right ways to do it surely. Also will I be able to claim back my court costs from them? I would appreciate any advice. Thanks 73

The Landlord wrote this on 2008-12-03 18:36:58 Hi Sara,
I went through the exact same thing. One of my tenants wanted to get evicted so she could get a council house.

All she wanted was a letter saying that I was evicting her, so she could show the council. At that point, she could apply for a council house, and I imagine the eviction would move her into higher priority.

I can't believe people can get away with crap like that. I want her on the streets. People like that should be omitted from being able to apply.

After evicting her, I'm not entirely sure what happened to her. But I do know that one or two times, the police came knocking on my door, requiring about her. So I imagine she's not been best behaved. Hopefully she’s tucked away in a dark and dingy cell.

Point being, I know that people do want to get evicted, just so they can get a council house. I'm not sure how successful the claimants are, or whether you can stop it from happening. What’s most sad is that there are genuine people out there who have done no harm, and they can’t get homed.

Kind regards 74

Sara wrote this on 2008-12-04 17:31:22 Thank you for you reply Property amateur. I think the council should request references from previous landlords before giving properties out.
Did you have a solicitor at court or did you go it alone. The thought of court proceedings are a worry even though I've not done anything wrong.
Thanks
Sara 75

Cam wrote this on 2008-12-18 11:58:07 Just wanted to update on my court case. Soon after the hearing (in fact when I got home), there was an e-mail from the management agency wanting to send someone over to sort out the heating. I got a similar letter from their lawyer. Why now???

This case will go to trial. Unfortunately, I might have to look for a new law firm as my current one is apparently too busy to handle my (probably not so profitable) case.

Does anyone know anything about putting in a pleaded defence (16.5)? My solicitor told me they want to put in an application notice to adjourn. (lawyer talk to get an extension) 76

Mrb*stard wrote this on 2009-01-03 01:41:07 If they are a DSS tenant you can get the rent paid direct to you once they are 8 weeks in arrears.All you need to do is contact the Council.If they have rent arrears the Council will not rehouse them because they have made themselves intentionally homeless by not paying their rent. 77

The Landlord wrote this on 2009-01-03 11:38:09 Hey MrB,

Not entirely sure how easy that process is. Because when I called the Housing Benefit and explained that my tenant was in arrears, they didn't seem bothered. They basically couldn't release any financial information on my tenant (I wanted to know if she was receiving benefits), nor did they take any action on the arrears.

On the direct.gov website it states that under special circumstances the council will pay directly into the landlord’s account if the LHA tenant is worried about managing their money. But I never got that option suggested. But to be honest, after being 2 months in arrears, I just wanted her out anyways.

My tenant told me the only way she would leave is if I sent her a formal letter explaining that she is in arrears and therefore want her to leave. She said it will help her get a council house. I imagine the fact she had a child helped in the process. I'm not entirely sure what happened after she left.

Kind regards 78

femi wrote this on 2009-01-03 23:36:23 hey just wanted to update on my hmo tenant, i ended up changing the locks on him and there was nothing he could do about it. it turns out the police will not intervene in landlord tenant disputes unless i witheld his property ( i called to check posing as a tenant that had been locked out by landlord)i let him leave his stuff there for about a week. he went quietly in the end, sometimes its worth taking the risk as its not really a police matter. i guess he could not take matters any further as i had never given him any reciepts or paperwaork or anything. in the end he left owing me 5 weeks rent but at least he is gone now. 79

Mrb*stard wrote this on 2009-01-04 01:15:27 You are legally entitled to the HB or LHA to be paid direct to you once the tenant is 8 weeks in arrears (see regulation 93 of the Housing Benefit Regulation 1987.

Simply write a letter the Local Authority stating the name and address of the tenant and that they are 8 weeks in arrears and that you want to be paid direct. I am fairly certain they will answer your letter and tell you if the tenant is claiming LHA/HB. If they fail to do so and the tenant is claiming, you can make a complaint to the Government Ombudsman Scheme and get compensation.Keep copies of all correspondence and put everything in writing.

The Local Authority will not rehouse someone if they have rent arrears because they are making themselves intentionaaly homeless.

I have someone write now that I am evicting and she has rent arrears, but i am not going to tell the Council.On the contrary I am going to give her a glowing reference and help her to move because she is bad news and I would like to dump her on the Council.They dumped her on me first, so now I am returning the compliment.I am even going to help her find alternative accommodation by looking through the papers for her.That way I will get rid of her quickly, whilst the Council will probably tell her to stay in my property until I have a baliffs warrant.The Court action will cost money.To avoid this I have told her that if the council rehouse her she could end up in bed and breakfast which is totally true, so looking for another private landlord is her best option.I also try to be nice to my tenants at this stage because I can still collect some of the rent arrears and "help" them to move on.I even told her that I was selling the flat she was in because I hate being a buy to let landlord.I said nothing about her rent arrears as being the real reason.

If someone asked me for an eviction notice so that they could get a house through the Council I would give it to them. I can easily get a new tenant and I dont see much point stopping them.

I admit that my motives are very selfish, but I want to pay my mortgage and I dont need bad tenants.

I have been cheated many times, but you can always give them a taste of their own medicine after they have left.I had one tenant that did nothing but steal my property ie curtains,oven and petrol can.What he didnt realise was that i new he would take the petrol can and I put water, petrol and sugar in it.A few weeks later I saw him walking down the road in a very pissed off mood because his pride and joy was ruined.I have no regrets.He damaged an original fire place,smashed stain glass windows and was a child abuser.I thought to my self "serves him right" 80

RetardedTenants wrote this on 2009-01-05 10:19:20 WTF!? You're A TENANT, you are paying to live in SOMEONE ELSES HOUSE.

Obey their fucking rules or go contract cancer and die in a storm drain.

You are being given a place to call home for a fee, I Have had so many bad tenants that I wish I could just take their heads and waterboard them in an ice bath. 81

Sara wrote this on 2009-01-15 14:33:27 Hi
Can you believe it? Yesterday I was at court for the possesion hearing. The tenants now owe almost 4 months rent. The tenants decided when they arrived at court that they had had no hot water for 3 months. They admitted that they had not informed me but said that they had mentioned it to the Corgi engineer that had carried out the safety inspection 4 weeks ago.The Judge adjourned the hearing because of disrepair and ordered them to pay some of the 1 months rent and £30 off what they already owe me. I thought ground 8 made it manditory. And surely it can't be classed as a disrepair if they had never told methat there was a problem. Also I showed the judge a letter that the tenants had writted 8 weeks ago saying they were enjoying living in my home but couldn't afford the rent. I have been told the judge acte illegally does anyone know if this is true and if so what can I do about it.Wouldn't any one with half a brain see that these people are playing a game? 82

alison wrote this on 2009-02-06 17:12:41 Hi,
I am as usual fuming at the injustice heaped on you as a Landlord. Just had the Enviromental Health at the property because she thinks it's costing her too much to keep the property at greenhouse heat, yet she's pocketed £1200 of council rent money without paying me a bean (I have at last got confirmation they will pay me directly thank goodness). Enviromental health say it's up to me to get better insulation! perhaps I could afford it if she paid me some rent! Have just found this site and at least take some comfort that others have the same problems, speaking to the council's housing department you get the impression you're just shit on their proverbial shoe. Have been a landlord for several years now, and some of the stories strike such a chord. Feel better already. Thanks. 83

Jonboy wrote this on 2009-02-18 05:10:38 I just read a few of the comments on here, and this general situation sounds like mine.
First: I had a young couple, both working, who moved into my condo.
Then: They broke up, and the girl left (even though she had been paying most of the rent previously) because she felt 'unsafe' there with her ex. No police report to back this up, of course.
The remaining boyfriend does not pay rent on time, and is currently 12 days late (12 days past the 5th, in my case). He does not return phone calls. Haven't heard back from the dude at all in almost 3 weeks. I'll be giving him a 72-hour notice, both hand-delivered and mailed. It's tricky, though, cuz a) I'm not sure if he'll 'accept' the hand-delivery (or does he have to, if it's stuck to the door??), and the mailed form needs an extra 3 days tacked on, due to length of mailing time.

What a nightmare. I feel like he's basically squatting.

Oh, and when I visited the place, shortly before rent was due, with his permission, I think I found heroin residue in a metal spoon that was poised over a candle. Is there anything I can do with that information (I took pictures) to assist a potential eviction??

Any comments are welcome. I'm a first-time Landlord and thought things were fine until 'the break-up' made shit go extremely sour. 84

Cam wrote this on 2009-02-18 10:28:48 RetardedTenants wrote, on Jan 5th, 2009


WTF!? You’re A TENANT, you are paying to live in SOMEONE ELSES HOUSE.
Obey their fucking rules or go contract cancer and die in a storm drain.
You are being given a place to call home for a fee, I Have had so many bad tenants that I wish I could just take their heads and waterboard them in an ice bath.


====================================================================


The above comment is indicative of all that is wrong with the UK! 85

Rob wrote this on 2009-02-20 14:19:06 In my experience all social tennants are scum bags and the benefit,council and Courts are a bunch of idiots. But then we pay their wages whether they do there job well or not. What a crappy Country this is,just perfect for breeding and importing more scum. 86

Dr Nogood wrote this on 2009-03-03 23:20:12 Brilliant...your agonising experiences sustain me. I am glad that iliterate landlords are being shafted by bad tenants...that'll learn you for either:

1) Not using a referencing agency for ALL tenants;

2) Taking on council tenants for the income thinking it was some gravy train;

3) Being utter cretins and not insuring yourselves.

I love this article and the comments from other landlords who have penny pinched themselves into a world of shit. You have sent me to bed a happier man than I was. Especially the dullard who talked about waterboarding his income stream (tenants). What a cunt. 87

paddy wrote this on 2009-03-04 08:11:02 Dr nogood
thanks we could all learn a great deal from you. It would be really helpfull if you could find time to teach us more.
what a cunt !!!! 88

The Landlord wrote this on 2009-03-04 08:20:42 Dr Nogood,
I've made some mistakes in the past as a Landlord, I admit that. But some times you can be the nicest person in the world and do all the right things, and you're still dealt a bad hand. It's how life works, unfortunately.

Not entirely sure why you get pleasure from other peoples misfortunes, but it could be a manifesting psychological issue.

On a final note, I've learned through my mistakes. And most importantly, i've maintained this blog and documented my experiences so other people can avoid the mistakes I've made. At least I'm being productive...I hope.

Regards 89

Dr Nogood wrote this on 2009-03-04 14:16:17 I understand that The Landlord, and seriously I agree with a lot of what you say, and respect your efforts here (and time spent answering people).

My view of landlords is clouded by my experience. I have always been a good tenant (I don't even understand the concept of someone not paying on time, it is beyond me), I have treated all landlord's properties with respect and been rewarded with the worst attitudes and laziest landlords around (e.g. from my latest toss pot, 6 months to fix a communal entrance only after the threat of legal action and vandalism by local school kids).

I have had five private 'professional' landlords from various different parts of the country and have only had an overall neutral experience with one of them...and he was insane. The rest of them were penny pinching, overstretched, greedy, stupid, grasping, partition wall placing morons who I would gladly see roasting over an open fire (the one they ripped out of their dank period property and replaced with breeze blocks).

You'll forgive my glee when the individuals who have served me so much get some shovelled back in their faces. The way they describe their ex tenants is in line (and often worse) than the words I use to describe their ilk.

You seem OK...your attiude and business respect for your tenants have obviously taken a big hit recently since you describe them as bitches and various other names, and if you are like my previous landlords you will make the mistake of treating all tenants like scum, preempting their greasyness. That would be a very sad day for you and your tenants and it is downhill from then on. 90

Cam wrote this on 2009-03-04 18:30:19 We need to put things into perspective here. There are good LLs and bad LLs. Just like how there are good tenants and bad tenants.

I believe the problem is... tenants are stereotyped as an "underclass". Very possibly due to council tenants. But you have private tenants who rent simply to learn about a new area before committing to a purchase!

Again, because home ownership is a big thing here, people who rent are deemed to be underclass - and treated as such.

Which is nonsense! THe rent I pay is more than what someone on the national average earns. Yet, my LL does not seem to think that providing a property with a functional heating system is basic for a country with temperate climate.

Why? I believe that the majority of the people in this country are racist. Need a really long post to explain why I think as such (plus it's another topic) - hence this short version. 91

Dr Nogood wrote this on 2009-03-04 22:58:23 Cam, you are suggesting that owning property somehow makes you stand out from the 'underclass' renting, this is bollocks. If I had dropped out of school, worked at Tescos and got a mortgage I would own a house...doesn't make me a success or a better person. I need mobility and renting is convenient!

With this view you are apologising for being who you are. Basically I see landlords like any other service: you pay them, they give you a service. Your post panders to their prejudices about their clients, and excuses them from their duty as a paid service prodider to provide a service!

Landlords who get shafted by shit tenants have every right to be unhappy...that's what insurance is for...if you are a nob end out on a limb or expecting easy money then you deserve everything you get: there is no such thing as easy money. Stupid landlords thinking that their tenants are golden geese are the reason why landlords are so heavily regulated (towards the best interest of the tenant).

You appear to have a chip on your shoulder about being whatever colour/nationality you are...show them you mean business by writing them letters (ALWAYS deliver by recorded mail), and taking their dumb asses to court when they don't fulfil their legal obligations (such as giving you a working boiler). 92

Cam wrote this on 2009-03-05 02:51:31 Hi Dr. Nogood,

Of course! I can be wrong. But, this is definitely the impression I get.

We rent simply because the nature of our work requires extensive travel. The same for you.

But the manner in which things in the UK are geared towards, favours home ownership. If you are a homeowner, you get a much better (i.e. lower) interest rate were you to take out a loan. Etc., etc. Your credit rating with the likes of Experian, Call Credit & Equifax is better if you are a homeowner.

Fair enough - a secured loan does (and should) fetch a better loan rate, etc. Saying that, I was shocked that cash deposits were not as useful. As an example, if you have £1M and a home worth £1M, you would have been in a better stead with the home. (This might be a reason for the current economic climate and depressed property market).

At work, EVERYONE our age own their homes. Some of my colleagues, when we have random chats, always ask why we still rent??? Why rent when we could buy our own place while have lower payments (apparently, the monthly mortgage repayments would be lower than the rent we pay and this was before the BoE rate cuts). As a matter-of-fact, our friends are the ones who pointed out that tenants get different treatment in comparison to homeowners.

Nothing to do with chips & shoulders - it's just that my experiences here have made me somewhat melancholic about this country - and made me stereotypical too!!! Which is a shame. 93

todd wrote this on 2009-03-19 11:43:51 i can see everyones point of view, but as a single parent of 3 and full time student nurse i can not afford to buy a place. My prediciment is i was left by my partner with 3 children to provide for. Unfortunately it is his house and he wants me out...this leaves me to find somewhere to rent and the only way for me to afford that at the moment is to get some (not all) help from housing benefit. This leaves me in a situation where people LL either won`t take me on coz i`m a student or because i`ve got 3 young children. This is making life quite stressfull as my ex (who is a woman beating bastard who broke my face) is threatening to move back in if i`m not out by may. this puts me in a dangerous position and as he didn`t get charged for it i can`t stop him. I have only ever own my own property or lived with my ex so this renting lark is new to me. I know there are people out there who don`t pay but i`ve got 3 children and need a roof over their heads and feel that these scum bags who don`t pay are the ones who have made it difficult for me to rent. If LL could trust everyone to pay that would be great but they can`t. And please don`t put everyone who needs some help to get a home under the same banner. being on social does not make you a bad person...some times there is no other choice..

name changed for protection 94

Jools wrote this on 2009-03-19 16:37:20 I think the problem is that DSS tenants are portrayed as souped up saxo driving, burberry wearing chav's who's sole purpose in life is to reproduce and populate the planet further with their kin. Unfortunately, for those who have to resort to the benefit system, the predjudices against such tenants is all encompassing even those who are looking to change their lives etc like Todd.

It does not help the matter when the councils pay the tenants directly expecting them to pass the rent onto their landlords. Now don't get me wrong but that is like putting fucking dracula in charge of a blood bank. The tenant spends the money on his white lightning and fags and when there is fuckall left it's the landlord who suffers and has all the stress and hassle of going to court etc.
Until the councils get wise and return to the system where the landlord gets paid directly and the correct amount without fear of being pursued for overpayments by the stupid councils things are not going to change.

I would love to take on DSS clients but I won't untill it's made fairer for the Landlord. Todd, I really feel for you and hope that you get something sorted soon and can get away from that psycho ex husband of yours. I know there are good people out there but it's the scum who are making life difficult for everyone.
*********************************
Dr Nogood - "Brilliant…your agonising experiences sustain me. I am glad that illiterate landlords are being shafted by bad tenants…that’ll learn you for either" That was your quote! Who are you calling illiterate when you can't even get your own grammar correct!

Cam - Come on then, tell us why you think everyone is racist! Could do with a bit of cheering up!

Paddy - please do not put cunts down! Cunts are useful !(sometimes)

Retardedtenant - fuck me - suggest you go and check your medication cos it's obviously not working.

Todd - hope something comes up soon. Hopefully your ex will have a nasty accident and leave you and your kids alone. 95

Neolec Ltd wrote this on 2009-03-19 17:03:41 I have private and so called Social tenants, the private tenants rarely cause me any grief and if there are minor problems with the property they sort them. With rare exception, so rare I will happily slit my wrists the next time it happens. The scum bag social tenants expect everything done for them and still dont appreciate what they have. I feel extermination in most cases would be a kindness. For the record out of 16 current social tenants there is one decent person. And during my 8 year experience as a landlord she is the only one.
As for the Councils and Housing associations,etc, the people who work in them could not hold down a job in the real world, so thats why the whole thing is such a chaotic mess. 96

Dr Nogood wrote this on 2009-04-03 12:23:01 Jools, are you talking about 'that'll learn you'...it's an expression to mock pointless landlords like you. If you have taken issue with anything else let me know (use [sic] to indicate where I have made grammatical errors).

Neolec: talking of proper jobs, what skills do you need to be a landlord except eating food and being able to fobb people off? I bet you couldn't survive without fleecing your tenants for their substandard accomodation. Remember the people you want to exterminate pay for your cheap nasty leather sofas and second hand alpha male motors. If I was to exterminate a section of the population, it would be those arseholes who let entire neighbourhoods degenerate into slums. 97

The Landlord wrote this on 2009-04-03 12:27:52 @Dr Nogoog,
Being bad at ANYTHING is easy and doesn't require skill. Being a good Landlord isn't easy.

I don't really get the whole, "anyone can be a landlord" argument. There are landlords out there making a killing, while others are struggling. 98

Neolec Ltd wrote this on 2009-04-03 13:54:56 In regard to my skills, I am a qualified electrical engineer, and Managing Director of a company I have built up over 35 years. We export all over the World and are highly respected in our industry. What have you achieved in your life?.
As for my property,I could and would be happy to survive without it. Getting involved with parasites and wasting my time responding to idiots like you is something I don't need. My properties are well maintained to a standard I would
accept myself. I don't have the Sofa or the car you describe, clearly you are of limited intelligence and expect everything in life to be given to you. In fact you may well be one of the tenant's I described. 99

vice wrote this on 2009-04-04 01:00:10 I'm sorry that your tenant sucks and won't pay rent but not all tenants are that way. I was shocked when I saw your post, who new that a landlord could be so unprofessional and call names. Instead of calling names why don't you just evict her and pray for her. What would Jesus do? 100

The Landlord wrote this on 2009-04-04 07:12:32 Vice,
If I thought ALL tenants were like that, I wouldn't be a Landlord. I'm a good Landlord, but I also have a threshold for frustration, hence my outburst. Call me human, if you like. I was more than diciplined when confronting her in person, and I did evict her.

Cheers 101

Dr Nogood wrote this on 2009-04-06 18:10:18 'ello Neolec if u prefer mee to rite lik this to mak u feel soupereeor i will.

But seriously. This being the internet I have recently developed four cures for cancer, three cures for long term memory disorders and one cure for having a very small penis (it's code named lyingontehinterweb).

If you genuinely believed that relieving yourself of your property (good luck with that) would be of benefit to you you'd have done it...but you're too greedy for that. You're too tight to pay the agency fees and too stupid to vet your tenants. If you are a company director, why not do that instead of meddling in the lives of people who you don't care about?

THE LANDLORD is right when he says not everyone can and should be a landlord...you sound like a case in point (hates tenants: check, has no understanding of his obligations as landlord: check). Explain to me what I EXPECT from my landlord so I can rebuff you on that too. What do you consider unreasonable and what have I suggested I have asked for from my pet tosser? 102

Camillus Agnel wrote this on 2009-04-07 02:12:39 What I expect from a landlord/lettings agency?

To provide a habitable property. Not one where the heating is screwed, where mice roam free, where issues are not dealt, etc.

And upon going to court, LIE under oath, i.e. perjury (I have clear cut documents to prove this).

Alas... this is the UK. Despite all my documented evidence, the trial judge did not want to hear anything. Why? Simple! I'm not white. So, I must be wrong! This is the only explanation. 103

Dr Nogood wrote this on 2009-04-07 22:56:38 Not true Cam, it's because you DIDN'T commit perjury. You are not scum, have faith in the legal system (more fool you) and didn't decide to lie through your greedy teeth to a judge and jury...that's why you rent and your landlord owns: he's decietful scum!

And as everyone always says, the law is an ass (and if he and his ilk [normally a dodgy handyman he hires] are willing to lie to a judge there is fuck all you can do).

What I can't wait for is when I pull out my telephone evidence and my independent (really independent) witnesses. My dream is a landlord being convicted of purjury...bliss place. 104

Camillus Agnel wrote this on 2009-04-08 01:14:52 Dr Nogood,

The judge was none the better - a real kangaroo court! It's being taken to a higher level by the guys on my end.

They were such fools and were so clearly making up stories, that's why we were flabbergasted when the judge did nothing.

Oh, and actually, I rent because back in 2007, we sold our really nice place in Kew and decided to give up the UK and move elsewhere to raise a family. Unfortunately, circumstances changed. 105

Anne-Marie Crawford wrote this on 2009-05-17 02:37:54 Hi,

It was good to read that Im not the only one having a mare with my tenant. He took up residency in my flat in July 2008. Contract finished 6 months later and I refused to enter into another agreement after this period had ended as I wanted the flat back at some point and tenant verbally agreed to pay weekly until I gave him notice, He was nice at the start then the excuses came, missed payments ect. March 09 he tells me hes on the sick and do I except DSS. I said no and told him I want him out. It is amazing to me how a person can just turn on you and become your worst enemy overnight. He kindly advises me that he is going no where without a court order so that he can go down the housing and get a flat from them. I applied for a possesion notice and taking him to court on 9th June. My question is how the fuck am I gonna get the rent arrears out of him, can the court enforce this and maybe take it out of his wages when or if he goes back to work. he owes me approx 1.5k and I worry what sort of state the flat will be in once he eventually leaves. After this I find it hard to trust people and cannot take people at face value any more. When he leaves my brother is moving in, until house prices start rising, then im selling the flat and gonna try and put all this behind me. The stress of all of this has caused problems in my relationship because I have so much anger inside me. I have turned up at the flat before now with my tenant and his girlfriend laughing at me and shouting abuse like you cant fucking get us out.
I have an idea which I need to check with courts if im allowed to do. What I wanted to do was after the eviction date has passed and if he has not left already rather than applying to court for bailiffs which will take about 2 weeks, I will pop down when he is out, change the locks, bag up hs stuff and leave under the stairs by the flat, plasma and all. I am gonna get a non permananent marker pen and write on my lovely white front door, you have been evicted, your stuff is under the stairs, good ridance, who's having the last laugh now? 106

BD wrote this on 2009-05-18 09:05:58 my parents are going through exactly the same thing, they have rented out a house to tenants who are have not paid now for almost a month an a half and insist the council is going to pay on their behalf. I am just researching ways of how to evict them now. I am convinved housing allowance that the govt hands out to them is going to them but they plead otherwise. the Council has also been very unhelpful and slow to react. GRRR...welfare state getting on my nerves! as my parents are straight and simple folks! 107

paddy wrote this on 2009-05-18 14:38:31 Hi Bd

Most local authorities only pay the person on benefit and not directto the landlord unless its exceptional circumstances and requires a lot of form filling.
Sounds like they are not passing on the benefit. Council wont take action.
Issue a notice to quit straight away. Make sure you send it by recorded delivery.
Then prey they move out or you will need a court order to get them out that could take months.

good luck

paddy 108

bd wrote this on 2009-05-18 21:23:36 thanks for ur feedback! ur website is pretty useful, although I am in my first year at uni studying law, the real practical part of it years beyond me atm. 109

Rob Shread wrote this on 2009-05-19 08:56:59 Hi,
The problem you have is the Law defends this sort of scum, so be careful you
don't end up in a worse mess by entering the property. I have the same
problem myself and as you will find, none of the Government departments or
the people who work within them are competent or interested.

Like you, as soon as I can sell, I want out of letting, particularly to
social "scum bags".

Good luck.

Rob 110

Anne-Marie Crawford wrote this on 2009-05-20 16:33:23 Hi

Thanks for feedback. I am really looking forwrd to the 9th of June now. The court has allocatd 20 minutes to give me full possesion and discuss how he intends to pay me back.

I received a call from Bham City Council whom my tenant has spoken to and they have told him that if the rent arrears remain as high as they are then I will be guaranteed possesion. They have advised me that the eviction will go against any homeless application he wishes to make.

A friend told me that once he is gone he is someone elses problem and that is so true.

He has probably being saving up a nice little deposit on another flat which is money owed to me, then he will probably stop paying and know that he will be safe for at least a couple of months while the landlord gets the possesion order. The laws a joke cause tenants like this know how to work it.

My tenant has 5 kids so I guess I will come right down on the pecking order if im to get any money that is owed to me through the court.

Its such a shame cause my brother is really looking forward to moving in but I need to get rid of that asshole first. My brother understands that I am selling it but not for the next 12 months or so.

I will keep u all informed of developments. 111

Prick wrote this on 2009-05-24 17:53:52 well i honestly hope that the Landlord who wrote this article will end up in jail.
I so wish and I will so pray that it will take you 1 year to get your tenant out of the house. Who the fuck do you think you are to call her and ask her for money ? and harrase her ? if the money is not in your bloody account send a email, if no reply, make ONE phone call, if no reply take her to court cos that is the fucking law you fucking prick and NONE OF YOU WOULD HAVE PROBLEMS WITH YOUR TENANTS if you wouldn't be FUCKING CHEAPSKATES AND WOULD GIVE YOUR PROPERTY TO A AGENCY !!! that way you wouldn't even have to ever meet the tenant. EVERYBODY IS ENTITLED TO A PLACE TO SLEEP AND EAT WITHOUT PAYING IN A MODERN SOCIETY and let's not even talk about the pricks that have the property listed as COMERCIAL RENT and not paying council tax while they have 20 tenants in the property you pricks you should rot in hell and I hope people are going to SQUAT in your homes for ever and stick out a notice that you can do jack shit you pricks go to hell 112

bd wrote this on 2009-05-25 09:21:03 Hi all,
unfortunately the tenants that were living in my parents house have paid their 1 and a half month rent miraculously.(the council apparently hasn't even paid them) So our plans to begin procedure once 2 months unpaid rent passes has come a halt. Lord knows how many more months they are going to be irregular in the future. My! My! It is hotting up in here ^.^ 113

Anne-Marie Crawford wrote this on 2009-05-25 22:13:41 Dear Prick,

You are a really are a PRICK aren't you.

Everybody IS NOT entitled for a place to eat and sleep without paying in a modern socirty.

You sound like one of those social scum bags who will go on from place to place getting evicted, really a bit of a waster.

I will get my apartment back next month but I am much wiser and not so trusting because there is scum out there like you that take or would like to take us landlords for a ride. I am guaranteed possesion next month and I just hope he has a clean shirt for court cause I am evicting his ass.

You don;t know what the fuck your talking abouy cause you will never have your own place, who would give you a mortgage. I bet nobody would give you a reference if you needed one so I guess your stuck living in crappy social housing cause thats all you can get.

FUCKING IDIOT

This forum is for landlords that have or are experiencing idiot tenants like you. We are not interested in hearing what u have to say cause you are obviously goin to be anti landlords. You will not get much out of life with you attitude and no respect for other people. 114

Anne-Marie Crawford wrote this on 2009-05-25 22:44:40 To all the landlords who read this forum. Sorry for my bad language but when I see that stupid comment posted from that idiot tenant, it makes my blood boil.

In this past week and in the street where I live have seen some tennts leave late in the evening. I knew from an asian gentleman who is the landlord that I speak to in the local shop that he had taken the young family to court due to rent arrears. I was out walking my dog and I saw them pack up this flat bed vehicle with what few belongings they had and leave. I noticed the damage to the double glazed front door was harendous and they left all the windows wide open.

This just proves tenants have no respect for the property cause it doesn't belong to them.

Someone told me earlier on this week and I guess the sad fact is it really is true especially with regard to me evicting my tenant next month. He said once he's gone he will be someone elses problem not yours. I really hope not and hope that the next landlord he meets will be alot wiser and ask for refernces cause then he really will be fucked. Opps sorry for language.

Buy all and please no comments from idiot tenants. The saying what goes around comes around is very true. 115

paddy wrote this on 2009-05-26 07:11:11 Hi Prick
really interesting view point.Just a shame you have to be so aggressive and swear so much.
Have you considered group therapy or similar type scheme. I think ten years ago or so they had purpose built institutions for people with your type of problems.
Rent free if im not mistaken. 116

Cam wrote this on 2009-05-26 08:03:30 Anne-Marie & Prick,

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. We can, however, control our reaction to their actions!!!

It's very simple!!!

If landlords don't like letting, then don't! Anne-Marie, don't let to these "idiot tenants".

Prick, why are there homeless people? Everyone entitled to housing, right? Why not take them in? 117

Dr Nogood wrote this on 2009-05-26 10:04:56 "This just proves tenants have no respect for the property cause it doesn’t belong to them." - Anne-Marie Crawford

And this just proves that cretins will label ALL tenants for the actions of a few.

I have been fucked over by numerous landlords...can I say that all landlords are pricks? Yes. Would I be right? Probably not. If you hate tenants SELL UP AND GET OUT OF THE PROPERTY BUSINESS. Tenants want you as much as you want them. 118

Anne-Marie Crawford wrote this on 2009-05-26 14:34:17 Dr Nogood,

There must be a good reason why you feel that you been let down by numerous landlords. you are wrong that all landlords are pricks. I am the nicest person you could meet and I didn't deserve to be taken for a ride by my current tenant because he got into financial difficulty.

If you can't afford to pay then get out, its as simple as that.

I have mortgage, service charge and council tax to pay on that flat so is it ok for for him to live for nothing off the back of me.

I am on landlords side because if you fuck them about as a tenant then you deserve the same treatment back. 119

Dr Nogood wrote this on 2009-05-27 10:45:58 Hi Anne-Marie,

Risk of the trade...and isn't there insurance for this type of thing?

I have never been a day late with my rent in over 9 years of renting. I have never been tardy asking for problems to be fixed (such as broken appliances, busted furniture). Have I been rewarded by a service that could be defined as non sub standard? No.

Landlords have cheap skated, shirked, squirmed, blamed and pathetically threatened me over the slightest issue:

"Oh, you must have done something to the washing machine to break it" etc.

Landlords who have experience of one bad tenant often regard tenants as 'scum' (Nicolas Van Hougstraten style), and you said that tenants don't care about your property because it doesn't belong to them. You are telling me you are nice...I don't care how nice you are...are you a good landlady? I don't think so if you automatically assume that tenants are out to screw you and damage your property on purpose.

What the UK needs isn't 'nice' landlords or landladies, it's professional registered approved landlords with the financial situation to back up problems like plebs not paying their rents, plebs needing to be evicted in court.

It is because of bad landlords that the law is now in favour of tenants (in some ways). I agree that scum who refuse to pay or leave are a problem, but they are an established risk that can be insured against. 120

lame wrote this on 2009-05-29 03:51:47 What about the real american people who can't pay there fucking mortgages...because they bought houses they cant afford. and now they get to live in there houses for 8 to 9 months rent free while the bank forecloses.........fucking bullshit they are just as much scums as renters you stupid fucking landlords. 121

Anne-Marie wrote this on 2009-05-31 23:19:57 To Lame,

What are you goin on about you idiot???????????? 122

Anne-Marie wrote this on 2009-05-31 23:22:07 To Dr Nogood,

Fair Comment 123

Anne-Marie wrote this on 2009-06-08 16:08:56 In court tomorrow 9th June to evict tenant.

Whlst this has been waiting to get to court he has put in a homeless application in to bham city council. I have spoken to them and they say his partner called them to advise he is having problems handling his affairs. They have offered him an immediate interview. They also said that he may not turn up to court.

I am not going to b made to feel sorry for this man as he has taken me for a ride over the last few months and put me in financial difficulty as I only work part time and have had to borrow money off family to pay th bills on this flat.

I read up on this homeless application cause I need him to leave asap once he gets eviction date. If I get bailiffs its gonna cost me extra £95 which I could do without xpense. It doesn't look like it will slow up process which is good.

People like my tenant deserve to be homeless, i'm sure his partner will help him out.

Thing is, if i'm accidently down the flat this week and she is there I shall ask him where is the young girl I caught you in bed with last month when I let myself in cause you wouldn't answer the door to me. I think her name was Michelle off the same area flat is in. Oops sorry, hope I haven't dropped you in it. 124

Jools wrote this on 2009-06-08 19:09:26 Anne Marie - heres hoping you get what you want tomorrow.

Prick - Hope you get all you ask for and more you dopey twat. Walk a mile in my shoes when dealing with idiots like you and then feel free to comment - oh yes learn to write letters properly. There are things called Paragraphs and punctuation.

Lame: You wanker - crawl back under the rock you have been hiding under.

Dr Nogood; I actually agree with some of your stuff!! Just some mind.... 125

Anne-Marie wrote this on 2009-06-09 19:32:15 Hiya,

I went to court this afternoon and was really surprised my tenant turned up at all. But there he was smug as anything sittin in the waiting room.

He had a duty solicitor representing him and she did all the talkin. He was asking for 28 days to leave property but the judge felt this was too long and gave him 14 days instead. He was also ordered to pay £1,350 in rent arrears. But guess what he has no job so I guess I can kiss that money goodbye for a while.

Apparently he suffers from anxiety and panic attacks and hates leaving the flat. He hasn't worked since xmas.

My tenant has put a homeless application into Bham City Council. All he wanted was the eviction notice so that he can get an immediate interview for one of their flats.

I hope he doesn't have big expetations of gettin a luxery flat like mine again. He will be offered a grotty place in a crap area surrounded by negative people. Worst still been a single man he may even get a hostel.

My question to all landlords is, should I feel guilty or responsible for making someone homeless?????

I gettin out the renting game after been stung like this. 126

Jools wrote this on 2009-06-09 20:25:20 Dont feel guilty! Your tenant is the one who has got himself evicted! You have to treat this as a business. It's not personal - if you do treat it as personal it will eat away at you.

You have done nothing wrong except try to make a few bob out of providing somewhere for somewhere to stay. No law against that although Prick will probably disagree. May I suggest that instead of getting out - change your clientelle, iron clad your bollocks (you should have a pair by now having been through all this) and shout NEXT and start again. You have learnt a very hard lesson so why waste the experience?

PAnic attacks my arse - why does the defence lawyer offer him a place at their place?

Have a G&T and replan your next move. It's what being in business is all about!!

Jools 127

Anne-Marie wrote this on 2009-06-10 00:14:43 Thanks for comment Jools but my brother is movin in end of the month.

As for what you said about lettin it eat away at you this is very true and I have let it. I haven't been the best person to be round while this has all been goin on.

While this business over the flat has been goin on I also had to offload my boyfriend who seemed to like to fleece me and control me for far too long. I guess I have taken your advice and grown a pair of bollocks after all. I do feel a stronger person for it and can now see further than my nose. 128

Jools wrote this on 2009-06-10 07:27:47 Excellent - nothing like a clean sweep to clear the view for you. Hope everything works out for you!

Jools 129

The Landlord wrote this on 2009-06-10 08:22:29 Hey Anne-Marie,

Jools is right, don't feel guilty. Regardless of the circumstances, you did nothing wrong.

When I went through my first eviction I was pretty stressed and it was constantly on my mind. I probably wasn't the best person to be around.

My tenant also wanted an eviction notice so they could get rehoused by the council immediately. It didn't seem quite right- in order to get things moving quickly, my tenant did wrong.

I don't think one bad experience should completely scare you away from the renting game. My experience had a positive impact on me; now i'm a lot more cautious about who I rent my property to. What else would you do? Are you considering selling? 130

Anne-Marie wrote this on 2009-06-14 17:12:37 Hi all,

Got the possssion order in the post so I guess tenant must of got eviction order. One more week till he is out.

He said in court when I said to him don't let me hire some bailiffs to chuck you out that he would be gone before next Monday thank god. I don't want any further confrontaton with him.

I hope its in reasonably good condition, i'm not bothered if he hasn't cleaned it as long as no damage. I pointed out to him last time was down flat about lots of scratches on front door which weren't there originlly which he denied any knowledge of. He is a right scumbag, just a couldn't care less attitude. 131

Dr Nogood wrote this on 2009-06-15 11:44:16 Glad he's out. He sounds like a nightmare.

I wouldn't be too unreasonable about damage/wear and tear mind. Scratches and chinks happen in normal day to day usage (check your own front door). When landlords get very nit picky about the odd mark or dint it gets a bit silly.

I hope he doesn't do a real number on you and completely trash the place. 132

Anne-Marie wrote this on 2009-06-18 18:51:24 Hi all,

Can't believe what Ive done.

After gettin possession order I have finally got my tenant back for all the shit and problems he has caused me.

Popped down to my flat this afternoon to try and speak to him resonably but found him out. I had a neighbour with me. I could not believe the state it was in. It smelled of drugs, filthy, cream carper in the bedroom is now black, mirrored wardrobe doors which I paid alot for are damaged (have a 10 year guarantee on them so can hopefully that out, bathroom is discusting, how does he live and sleep in this filth.

I called a locksmith out, changed locks.

There is a little police station down the road so popped down, told them hat ive done, showed them possesion order, they said its a civil matter and they are not interested. I said his stuff is still in flat, they said does he owe you monie which I replyed yes £1,300. Just said whats in the flat is mine including nice plasma tv hes left (shame).

Police told me about SOFA SURFING. Where tenants will squat even after possesion and the housing will prefer tenant kip down at family/friends rather than finding them a place to live.

Now I have done this, the housing should find him urgent temporary accomodation.

My family have gone ape about what i did today, mum only cares that he won't be able to get his stuff back. I can see where she is coming from but she needs to think about the months of hell he has put us through and the money we have lost. He deserves this.

Funy thing is (don't laugh) after calling locksmith out I had no idea how I was gonna pay him cause I don't get paid till next week. I knew my dad wouldn't lend me his credit card again. How sad when I got home had to explain how urgent job, apologised and had to sort out paying them next week.

Im gonna have a well deserved cup of tea now. 133

Jools wrote this on 2009-06-19 08:00:40 Way to go!

Scumbag deserves it!

Jools 134

Dr Nogood wrote this on 2009-06-19 18:56:05 Hope it doesn't come back to bite you in the arse. He is a fucking cunt and no mistake, but the law may take a view on you taking his telly (where did he get the money for that?!).

Glad he's out. I expected he would have trashed the place. 135

Anne-Marie wrote this on 2009-06-20 15:09:20 To Dr Nogood,

Yeah I totally agree, I expected him to trash the place too. I don't think he would have gone by 23rd next week. He seemed to be pretty comfortable in that flat.

I have the upper hand now and he must contct me and grovel to get his clothes back. I had chance yesterday when down the flat to chuck all his stuff in the bin. He has left pics of his kids and I didn't have the heart to throw it all away, I guess he hasn't got much and what little he has got is been held to ransome now. I want an apology for what he's put me and my family through, my dad wants apology for when he physically removed him from flat and the police were called, he had betta grovel so badly then I may let him have his stuff back.

I am also gonna say any items of value I will be keeping towards the outstanding debt.

The flats ok which is good and hat damage caused can be sorted out. Im just glad this is the end of it all.

After all this I feel that Ive learnt a valuable lesson and like THE LANDORD previously said you are more cautious about people and it does make you feel more stronger and positive as a person. 136

Jools wrote this on 2009-06-21 08:15:01 Would suggest caution regarding the scumbags possessions!

Eeven though possession is 9/10ths of the law - they still do not belong to you - however you do have what is called in legal terms a 'lien' on them under the law of TORTS - (Complicated). However you can issue a notice stating that inorder to get the possessions back he must pay £1300 and that you will store them for say 3 months (or whatever - 30 days) after which, if the debt still remains unpaid the goods will be either sold or destroyed.

If you sell them and they realise more than what he owes then you have to send him the difference. I would hate for you to get sued by this wanker for unlawfull possession or accused of theft which is likely what he would do given his past issues!

Jools 137

Anne-Marie wrote this on 2009-06-21 21:38:08 Hi all,

Changed locks Thursday with tenants stuff locked in.

Thursday - Tenant returns to flat finds out he can't get in and goes

Sunday- Tenant returns with 2 others witnessed by a couple a live across road from flat.

He drills out the lock I had changed, takes his stuff ncluding plasma tv, leaves the lock in pieces on the side, then replaces the lock and puts three keys under the matt and goes.

The couple over road said they didn't call police cause they had sen him live there, they weren't to know.

He could of trashed the placed surprised he didn't.

I am shocked about how far scum bag tenants can go.

Should I report this to police for breaking and entering or trespass. I am quite scared about any repocutions if I report him. He has my address where I live and he could hassle my brother who is now living at the flat.


I spoke to locksmith from Thursday and he has offered to replace lock free of charge cause I.m not know he has kept a spare key to re-enter flat.

SCUM BAG TENANTS. 138

Anne-Marie wrote this on 2009-06-21 21:42:23 Also I found a letter stuffed under the sofa in flat confirming an appointement for tenant to see a psychiatric nurse, so he has obviousy not all there. 139

Jools wrote this on 2009-06-22 07:47:06 Sounds like a nutter.

Now he has gone I would leave well alone unless of course you know where he is and can send a couple of heavies around to inspect his knees - just for fun like!

Congratulations of getting rid of the scumbag - obviously no hope of the NHS sorting him out with th eletter from the pshrink hidden away.

Jools 140

Anne-Marie wrote this on 2009-06-23 00:35:08 Yeah your right complete fruit cake. I don't want to be associated with scum like this.

I rang the original locksmith out today to change locks and secure flat yet again as I could't be sure he would come back. Locksmith said he had done it a rush and it was a right botch job. Took him 45 mins to rectify damage.

At least I know it will be in good hands with my brother.

By the way I tried to report to police. They were supposed to come down flat yesterday and gave me a time of 1pm. I left work early and stayed till 3.30pm, no one at all. Got back and rang police asking what happened to them. Explained I don;t live there and didn;t want to spend all day at the flat. Police said they turned up a 4.10pm, I said what happened to 1pm and they said dont talk to them like that if I want anything done and switched call off. Police don;t want to know really.

I will forget about the scum tenant now and move on. £1,370 is alot of money to right off. I feel ike the victim here. 141

Anne-Marie wrote this on 2009-06-23 00:40:58 PS

The Locksmith asked me out on a date

Should I go

Jools, THE LANDLORD, Dr Nogood
Help me out on this one. 142

Jools wrote this on 2009-06-23 08:01:06 Hells teeth - he is a fast mover!

1. Is he married?
2. Does he look like Shrek/Wayne Rooney?
3. Does he have money?
4. Does he drive a blinged up punto/clio and or wear Burberry/Henri Lloyd etc?
5. Does he look gay or look like he would consider giving them a hand if one had a day off! Nothing wrong with that - hasten to add - just not what you expect to findout on date 2.
6. Is he going to take you out to a really, REALLY descent restaurant or just down to the local KFC in the hope of a quick hows yer father in the back of his van?
7. Has he used the line "would you like to see my lock picking tool?
8. Is he after your money? After all - all landlords are loaded and he might see you as his gravy train ride to the Aston Martin.
9. Does he look like he is/could potentially turn into a stalker/pervert/wide boy/lounge lizzard?
10. Can't think of a ten at the moment that isn't totally offensive or funny - will get back to you on that one.


If any of the above I would say no! Thing is - if he asked you out - how many others has he asked as well? Is he a bit of a 'lad'? Depends on what you like in the way of a bloke I suppose. Christ I feel like Marjorie Proops (only those of a certain age will know who that is!)

Seriously - if you do go out - make sure it is in a public place, let someone know where you are going and get someone to call you after half an hour just in case you find he is a complete wanker and you need an escape plan! Come quick cat/dog/budgie/stick insect/Aardvark etc has died. You can always excuse yourself and go or if he is Mr right stay!

Hey Landlord - just thought of an excellent money making idea for the site - Landlordhero.com. Dressed in a shiny 3 piece suit and complete with magic golden bunch of keys our hero arrives in his trusty Range Rover just in time to save the girl (who for me would look like Kate Bush/Nelly Furtado or the blonde bird with the weapon fetish in CSI Miami (just checking to see if Mrs Jools is not around so I can avoid her special head slap and genital cuff)) from the dark clutches of the evil megalomaniac with the skeleton keys and dodgy transit! £2.99 and a bag of Nobby's chilli nuts.Cheap at half the price.

Actually here is a conundrum - would you ever feel safe going out with a locksmith, splitting up and have him knowing where you live?

Be safe and let us know the juicy gossip!

Bastard Rozzers - I would make a complaint to the chief constable Nearly spelt that wrong).

Jools
PS - no charge for the advice!! 143

The Landlord wrote this on 2009-06-23 08:03:57 Anne-Marie: Is he attractive and/or rich? Are you attractive?
If you're willing to accept dates like that, why weren't we informed about it? I feel cheated. 144

The Landlord wrote this on 2009-06-23 08:10:33 Jools: That sounds like a money spinner, no doubt.

Cor, have you had a bad experience with a locksmith or something? You're SUPER cautious. I'd just go out and see what happens...call me crazy!!! 145

Jools wrote this on 2009-06-23 11:07:33 10. You could of course just go for it as per The Landlord!!

Still would advise against it if he looks like Rooney!! Apparently I have done Shrek a disservice and "dissed" him as Rooney is far more ugly!

LAndlord - did you go to Coyote Ugly when you were in Vegas? If not - you missed the best time of your life!

Jools 146

The Landlord wrote this on 2009-06-23 11:11:43 Jools: That was a bar in the "New York, New York" hotel/casino, right? Didn't go in there; didn't seem all that appealing from outside. What did I miss? 147

Jools wrote this on 2009-06-23 11:23:36 Oh Man....... you missed probably the BEST bar in the world! Have you seen the film Coyote Ugly? If not then let me explain.

Gorgeous girls, bar, girls dressed as cowgirls dancing on bar, more girls, 3/4 bottle of malt whisky, credit card behind bar, more dancing on tables, wife hammered, sisterin law hammerred, Brother in law hammered. Change credit cards - the girls love us - more danding on the bar. Free shooters + minder (!) for us to save our space at bar. Got there at 7pm - staggered out at 6.30am into casino. Slid down wall with hot dog in one hand and cold soda in the other!! Due to go in a helicoptor at 09.30 to Grand Canyon. Just made it.

I have never had so much fun in ALL my born days - seriously! If I find you have been to Vegas in the future and not been I will have to find you and slap you stoopid!!! HAve some pictures somewhere - if I can dig them out sometime I will let you see them.

No nudity, no hassle, no stress - just an excellent night. Word of warning - the girls don't take any lip from anyone and if you ask for water they turn the fire hoses on you! My wife complained about the wine via me and I was told "what the fuck do you expect - we serve beer and shots here"! Brilliant!

Jools 148

Arkadian wrote this on 2009-06-23 16:48:45 Hi there,

new here, but very interested in the discussion. I find myself in a similar predicament: DSS tenant moved into my property in January. He got references from previous landlord and a deposit (!!). Also he is a young man quite meek looking with two very young kids. Och well, it sounded good, so I rented the flat to him. At the start everything was fine, especially because the first payment (a hefty one) came from the council itself, then I had some money form the tenant on and off, but now it seems to have dried up. The tenant is about 7 weeks behind. As you all know the council is required by law to pay the money direct to the tenant except in very few circumstances (one of which is the inability to cope with money/bureaucracy, but if you had seen the amount of paperwork that has to be filled in you can't help wondering how you can expect someone who cannot deal with money to cope with reams of paperwork...). Anyway, the good news is that after 8 weeks the payments revert to the landlord, so next time I should be getting the money. The question is: do I still evict the tenant (while at least I know I am getting paid) or do I write off the money he owes me and hope for the best? Bear in mind that the payments being made to the landlord are temporary (12 months max I think) an then the case has to be reassessed.
I am now going to give the tenant a scary letter threatening eviction and telling that his details will be passed on to debt collection agencies, but will it work? Doubtful. Do I cut my losses and keep the tenant for a while at least? Probably that's the best solution... although it drives me insane.
I have to say that the council is not really to blame (up to a point) regarding payments as they are following the strict guidelines that come from the government. I say "up to a point" because I went to see them two weeks ago as well (lately I have been quite often) saying that the tenant was 5 weeks behind. They made me fill in a form and said they would follow it up, but did nothing at all. They could have at least stopped the payments on a temporary basis while the investigated the matter, but no... nothing at all happened. I am going to complain to the council because this is really not on, whatever the law says.
Also I was advised to complain to my MP because if enough landlords complain something night eventually change.
Besides, phoning the council is a waste of time. You've got to go in person otherwise nothing much will happening.
One last point: one council worker admitted to me that things like this happen all the time (since the law changed) and that they curse the day when this new legislation became effective as they now have to deal with tenants AND irate landlords on a regular basis.
I will complain to my MP, who knows... it may do some good.

One last thing: to the hate-mongers, my flat has just been redecorated, has a new kitchen and bathroom and new carpets and I would have no qualms about living in it (which was the original plan). 149

Anne-Marie wrote this on 2009-06-23 17:57:26 Jools,

Youre right, It could all go horribly wrong, with his skills as loksmith he knows where the flat is, he could really get his own back on me if we split up.

So no juicy gossip. I may be blonde but not dumb. 150

Anne-Marie wrote this on 2009-06-23 18:07:54 To Arkadian,

welcome to site

I would start the ball rolling to evict this fella. The money is only temporary remember. If you carry on taking money from council or tenant it may go against you when you take him to court to evict him.

He has to be at least 8 weeks in rent arrears before landlord is guaranteed posession.

Think about what you want to do, but it may have to get worse before it gets better. 151

Arkadian wrote this on 2009-06-24 12:10:15 To The Landlord,
you say you use Homelet for your insurance, if you don't mind me asking how much are they charging you? I tried their website and the premium I got (it is a guestimate I would imagine) was horrendous...

Thanks 152

The Landlord wrote this on 2009-06-24 13:01:38 Hey Arkadian,

At the time I got Homelet Insurance as part of a free package with a letting agent. But the ganet said it was valued at about £100.

But now, with everyone losing jobs and tenants falling into arrears, I imagine insurance is a lot more than it was a few years ago! 153

Arkadian wrote this on 2009-06-24 13:06:34 I see. Actually I got an alright deal with my present insurer (although I am not sure if there is rent protection... I am going to e-mail her) even if I could have got a slightly better one (but I know of them only later and couldn't be bothered to cancel a policy and start afresh. At the moment I am paying something like £220 per property which I think is not bad. 154

David wrote this on 2009-06-29 09:37:52 Hi guys, bit of a problem here. My girlfriend owns a property with an ex - when they split up, he told her that he had rented out the property to someone he knew (she had nothing to do with it) and is now trying to evict him. But, the electrics need re-doing in the house - and the council have now sent my girlfriend a letter saying that unless the electrics are sorted out, she will be taken to court. My girlfriend and her ex aren't speaking (but both want to sell the property) and we have no idea whether or not there is a contract in place at all. So what can she do? Is she liable for the remedial works even though she didn't get involved in renting the place out and how can she get them out of the place as they both want to sell it? Any thoughts appreciated. 155

Jools wrote this on 2009-06-29 11:22:12 Hi David.

1. The tenancy agreement is between who and who? If house jointly owned but ex is named on the contract and he has done it without your girlfriends knowledge then he is liable - see solicitor )remember 1st hour free).

2. Why are the council getting involved? If private residence (ie non DSS/benefits) then nothing to do with them - more likely to be health and Safety Exec.

3. As a joint owner she would have to prove that she had no knowledge of the property being let

4. Get an independent survey from Part P registered electrician - called a periodic inspection this will give you a reasonable idea of electrics condition - however it can be a load of bollocks given that although the instruments read ok - a visual inspection of wiring under floors/in walls etc is not possible and infact they could be knackred. House may just need new earth bonding? Again - why are the council getting involved - has she been grassed/stitched by ex or the alledged lodger?

I would get the sparky to have a look first - get a few quotes and try to negotiate. If you have a friend who is in the trade ask them to have a look first so you have some idea of what is going on before sparky arrives so they dont try to take your trousers down over price/work to be done.

Cost of inspection should be around £90 ish.

Why is SHE trying to evict when HE is liable too. I know they are not speaking BUT it maybe better to try some kind of arbitration just to see what is actually going on otherwise if you do it via solicitors you coul dend up paying a fortune. You need to know EXACTLY what agreement is in place between Tenant and EX. Not going to be easy or pleasant but needs to be done.

Jools 156

paddy wrote this on 2009-06-29 16:45:26 Hi if your girlfriend and her own this property jointly they are both responsible joint or severely. In other words what ever problems there are there is no blame to apportion between them. They have to take it on the chin jointly.
If there is no short hold tenancy agreement signed by the tenant and he is paying rent with no arrears . you will have fallen into an assured tenancy . You will certainly need professional advice to sort this if its the case.

I suggest you find someone to arbitrate between them or it will cost a fortune if you go legal.

The tenant may have contacted the council if he thought the electrics were un safe.
They will have had to act if they are on benefit.
They will have probably got the building control dept to take a look as electrics are now under their remit
If the electrics have been deemed to be unsafe you will need to get an NIC EAC qualified electrician to test and make safe. 157

Jools wrote this on 2009-06-30 11:33:27 Have the LABC (local authority building control) issued you with a certificate condemming the electrics? What EXACTLY have they said is wrong with them?

Jools 158

jezzijwolf wrote this on 2009-08-21 11:42:25 hi im a tenant and can see both sides i was a council tenant 21 yrs and im disabled with son that is special needs moved from council property into private accomadation have to move to different area to get help for more son however the landlords im renting off are a nightmare ive no central heating because it was needing replacing last year which i didnt no about he wired the electrics up so its constantly blowing appliances also bathroom door fell off onto my son the banister has broken and he blamed me for it all these have been reported to eviromental health because when i ask them to do repairs the landlords say theres nothing wrong with the house funny how the past five tenants have left the property before the end of the tenancy i know that there is bad tenants i knew someone who was like that but ive been polite when asking for the repairs to be done and all i got was a mouth full of abuse and threatened with eviction 159

jezzijwolf wrote this on 2009-08-21 11:51:34 ive always paid my rent when its been paid to me but when i asked again about doing the repairs as im paying rent and these repairs need doing they basically have told me that they are going to evict me and i said that they cant do that and that eviromental health is involved i told them i will pay the rent when they do the repairs i dont like doing that but ive been left no choice ive no heating dodgy electrics and im not paying for the repairs to be made i wont spend the rent on other things i will keep it until they sort the house out and seemly the council knew that they were bad landlords but never said 160

Cam wrote this on 2009-10-15 10:11:31 Hi Admin/Landlord,

Could you please remove my full name from the posts above. I think you know which.

Thanks. 161

Greg Whitehorne wrote this on 2009-10-17 11:27:58 Reading some of the posts on this site just confirm to me that the system stinks, I would like to try and organize a petition to change the law in particular in how rents are paid to tenants on housing benefit, We have 10 properties and it becoming a near full time job chasing round collecting rents, presently the law stands that unless the tenant is less than 3 months in arrears we can’t have the rent paid direct to us, unless they see the tenant as unstable and unable to pay there own bills.

This is government money they are receiving and they are using it to subsidise their drink and drug habit in most cases. For an example one of our tenants informed me he could not pay his rent this months as he had bought a dog and it had swallowed a stone so he had a vet’s bill for £80.00, what a joke.

Lets put our heads together and see what we can do. PEOPLE POWER 162

looby wrote this on 2009-11-22 20:40:58 hi all, i have spent what seems like an age reading everyones posts and they have been very informative. i currently rent privatly through an agent with my four children(yes 4 ! ) my ex partner left me in the run up to our wedding and went bankrupt to evict me from our home. i claim benifits and have suffered greatly at the hands of so called reputable landlords. one was recommended to me via the council who was an arab who promised when showing me around a property that all works to make the house liveable would be done prior to moving in. having paid just shy of £1600 inc fees i was stranded in a house that had an illegal boiler and kitchen and the council requested he do works. i was broken into 3 times and i reached breakin point, i forfitted the deposit and just moved thanks to my mother who paid my deposit and fees and is my guarentor on my current property. well i felt safe for a while until my boiler exploded covering me in scalding water. two weeks to repair! then no fence , 5 months to put in( i have dogs for my own protection now) windows that leak and then new neighbours whos surveyer wrote to my landlord stating my wall ties have gone and need urgent repair asap. it has been 9 weeks nothing done. my kitchen floor is lifting due to damp under the house. i withheld the 600 rent and now they refuse to even speak to me regarding the repairs until i bring my account up to date. all i actually want is a home that is safe and kept upto a decent standard. i took responsibility for decorating when i moved in for a reduced rent for a year and have done everything i can for what? my sons asthma to be so bad he is hospitalised. the council say there are no properties available and i can go to tempory accomodation for a max of 2 yrs then move again and again. i accept alot of dss tenants are god awful but likewise a whole host of landlords are money grabbing arseholes who show no regard for their tennants wellbeing or health.i appologise for any spelling errors im just a tad dim lol. 163

Rach wrote this on 2009-11-28 21:57:25 Hi,
Currently having major problems with my tenant.
Where's the justice for landlords, read the first part of your blog and it's the same situation as im in - constantly making promises that she'll be at the property when i've arranged to see her, not answering her phone, etc etc. A guarantor did sign the STA tenancy agreement and it's her boss. Thought about going to see her - unfortunately, the day all this blew up I found out that she has had her house repossessed and it was sold on the day I was going to go and see her.
I have got details of where my tenant works, the guarantor is her boss so I see no joy for me there :o(
The tenant has changed the locks on the property and is refusing to give me a key.....I think something proper dodgy is occuring
Unfortunately, I've been scammed, same as you the local council dont want to know, i've contact the police - civil matter, they dont want to know.
Im so at my wits end..............looks like legal action is the only way but it makes me feel sick to think that Im funding this chavvy little bitches housing costs. 164

Greg wrote this on 2009-11-29 11:33:46 I have every sympathy with your situation, however changing locks is not something she can do, be a bastard landlord and change them back, if you let this situation go on and to court it will cost you a fortune. Get a lock smith to change the locks, advise the police what you are doing and see if they want to be present, they won't. If she is working she will have to pay for a solicitor, probably won't. If you leave a message with the tenant and a recorded delivery letter giving her 7 days notice what you are doing, she will have to act. Most of these people know what the score is, so will just play the game until it becomes to much hassle for her. I have just evicted a tenant who was on housing benefit and just kept spending his rent, local council told me they would keep paying him until his tenancy agreement ended, another 3 months, I just went round and threw him out, I know that wouldn't work for every tenant but you have to be as bad as they are. Good luck what ever you do, I would love to get a petition together to lobby the government to get housing paid direct to landlords. 165

paddy wrote this on 2009-11-29 11:34:45 Hi Rach,

Ive been a landlord for 20 years.
In a nut shell if your tenant does not want to pay you or decides to wreck you property or just about anything else. You only have one legal course of action that is to use the courts. Depending how busy the courts are this will take up to 3 months. How ever im a little confused you dont actually mention if she is not paying you.?

rgds

paddy 166

Rach wrote this on 2009-12-01 21:14:51 Hi Greg and Paddy,
Greg - I like this option. I tried contacting the police and they really didn't want to know, they said its a civil matter but think I will try and speak to someone again tomorrow.
Paddy - no, she's not paying, she's not responding to contact, she's not there whenever I go around...in fact the only thing she is doing is living off my charity
It would be nice to think there was some justice for landlords out there....i'll keep you guys informed of my progress/lack of progress. Keep your fingers crossed for me.
Oh, dont know if its the same for guys but believe me a woman scorned is a terrible thing ;o) 167

jools wrote this on 2009-12-02 10:44:29 Good luck Rach!

Jools

PS I agree about the woman scorned thing BTW! 168

paddy wrote this on 2009-12-02 11:46:07 Good luck Rach,
Yes i agree gregs approach is a great idea and i have done this a few times myself, without contacting the police. Bear in mind that if you do this you cannot legally lock the tenant out of the property. I reiterate unless you have a court order, you have no legal rights to evict the tenant. If you do, you may be lucky and get away with it. However you could find yourself in the dock and paying compensation.There are companies that specilise in evicting tenants and charge an all inclusive fee. This is preferable to solicitors who will charge by the hour. 169

Mac wrote this on 2009-12-02 12:31:46 Even with a court order, you CANNOT kick out your tenant! You have to apply to get bailiffs to come around once the eviction date on the court order has lapsed. It may be a pain, but just follow the letter of the law and do not resort to "mob justice".

Do not bother with the police. They are useless in this situation. 170

Rach wrote this on 2009-12-02 23:33:40 Hey you guys,

Its good to know that you're there :o)
Bit of an update - had an absolute mare of a weekend with the tenant but hey Tuesday night....she eventually spoke to me when I rung for the hundreth time. Somehow I stayed calm on the phone and managed to pin her down to a time for me to go around, this evening at 9pm. I had said to her on the phone that if she did not let me have a key I would change the locks myself (thanks for the idea Greg :)).
Didn't expect her to be there. When I got there, lights on but no one home (kinda fitting that the property is the same as the tenant!!!) Phoned her...phone switched off. Waited............and she turned up....whoo hoo!!! She came over to my car and handed me the key, (managed to miss knocking her out when I opened the car door) I did explain that Id have to try the key myself due to not having much trust left in her anymore.....key fits.
She invited me in so for now it looks like the property isnt being used to grow cannabis in or any other dodgy things that I was imagining. Still not had rent but she has 'promised' that it will be in my account on Friday (wont hold my breath).
I have suggested she read the back of the tenancy agreement and explained about the guarantor to her - not sure she can retain much info thou (lights on an all that).
Roll on when I can issue the 21 to her to end the STA.
I'll keep you guys updated....will I get the rent/wont I??? I'm taking bets!!!!! Oh, anyone want to buy a flat in February lol 171

Dr Nogood wrote this on 2009-12-11 10:04:17 What sorry tales. Sadness from both sides of the equation.

Just a small piece of advice for tenants. Never, ever, ever believe any line like "this will all be done by the time you move in". It won't. Ever. And what's more, it will never get done.

I had an agent show me around a pokey little flat with filthy curtains, buggared furniture and cans of beer all over the kitchen. He wheeled out the tried and tested "this will all be done by the time you move in" line. I told him I wasn't 18 and have an IQ above 75. He looked sheepish and invited the hire-a-prospect woman who was "very interested" in the property in. I never went back to that agent and posted a note about him on my company website. What a character. 172

Rach wrote this on 2009-12-12 20:18:40 Update time.......
My 'lovely' tenant has still not paid her rent after her promise that it would be in on 4th December. I arranged to go and see her last Thursday night at 8pm, guess what???? She wasn't there, she let her phone ring to answerservice, I tried to ring the number of I have for the guarantor, same - rings to answerservice.
As you can imagine, im not best pleased at this point wasting petrol driving to see this hopeless case and she cant be 'arsed' to turn up. When will tenants understand that Landlords have lives too!!!!!
Any hoo, went to the local Asda and who should I bump into....Noooooo, I hear you say!!!!. There was my tenant and her guarantor wheeling out two trolleys filled with items probably paid for with the rent that im owed - must admit her face was a picture!!!!! Still no rent..............still not holding my breath 173

pigeon wrote this on 2009-12-15 11:34:21 Hmmmm, im not sure how i even stumbled upon this website but what an interesting read.
I rent through an agency from a private landlord, i have a baby and live on my own and dont work so i recieve housing benefit but i have always paid on time, i even had to borrow money from various family members as it took about 2 months before i even got the housing benefit even though i handed in forms WELL in advance. I would never dream about not paying rent on time, but i suppose as a benefits mother i am still classed as a lowlife scumbag by most landlords.
I chose to go down the renting route rather than trying to get my hands on a council house but now i wish i hadnt bothered. Ever since moving in its been a complete nightmare.
I moved in with the condition that the bathroom was going to be replaced (the bath has been kicked in, there are leaks everywhere, mould etc, just generally disgusting) and also that the house would be painted in neutral colours to make it look fresh again.
The day i moved in nothing had been done which i questioned and was told they would be sending someone out that week to start work.
Anyway, a few months later and nothing has been done. Both the landlord and agency are completely unhelpful, claiming they have changed their minds and i am stuck with the house as it is and that if i REALLY insist on the work being done then they will put my rent up by £160 a month as it will be a 'brand new house'!!!
I suppose i am very naive really as i didnt expect to get screwed over by a national lettings agency. I am now stuck as i dont have enough money to move out and pay the hefty agency fees/deposit for another house but there is also no hope of me having a council house as i am not being evicted from this place.
Just goes to show there are probably just as many nasty landlords as there are tenants. 174

Andrew wrote this on 2009-12-19 20:27:12 Dear All,

I have enjoyed reading this website which I found as a result of having rent payment issues with my tenant. Thankfully, this site gave me loads of information which, coupled with other bits and pieces has enabled me to find out exactly what I need to do to resolve the situation. So thank you all and, for your delight, amusement and so that you know your not alone....here is my story so far....

Earlier this year I decided to move to Portugal, where I now am. It had always been my intention to rent my house out and go overseas as I am well and truely fed up with the UK. Anyway, I contacted a local rental agency and set them the task of finding me a tenant for my 3 bed town house in Essex. I am self managing as I have a good friend I have known for years who lives next door but one.

Now, for the record, I am not a racist, however, I bought my house from a bank as it was a repo and the previous owners were Nigerian and had amassed debts of £70,000 that I know of!! so, verbally, I said to the agency "no Nigerians" but left it pretty open apart from that. I then had to come over here to sort a few things out. Whilst here, the agency found someone and an agreement was signed and all was well until I met the new tenant to hand over the keys and realised she is Nigerian!!! Anyway...benefit of doubt and all that....lets see how it goes.

That was at the begining of June. From then until October the rent has never been paid on time but at least it has arrived. Several times I have tried to contact the tenant but the phone does not work and her e-mail account is "unknown"....

By mid November I was starting to lose the plot as, according to my neigbour, the house was empty of people and still no rent. Thus I started to look into what had been going on and, despite there being no contact, notified (in writing) the tenant that an inspection would be taking place. My neighbour did this and reported back that the house is well looked after but she had noticed a few "odd things" about the pile of post she had to push past to get the front door open.

Firstly, several letters were addressed to companys with my address. Secondly, the bills were all in different names. Now, we knew a male, not named on the tenancy agreement, was living there but why are the water bills in his name? and why is the Sky bill and the phone bills in names which use the tenant's christian name but different sir names?? Thirdly, as the tenant has a job paying in excess of £40,000 a year....why are there a number of letters from the DHSS on the doormat?? and lastly, given the DHSS involvement, why is there a Barclaycard reader attached to the phone line??

Thankfully, my brother in law has his own security company and is very good at investigating people and businesses around the world, so with his help and my internet connection here we started looking.....

It turns out, she had registered the first company at my address 3 days BEFORE the tenancy agreement was signed. She had then registered a second company there in early November. She has a company in the USA with a very similar name to the first company registered which has "issues" there and she maybe being chased for unpaid debts. Looking into the other names she uses, it turns out she is linked to 3 other companies based in London NE3 and south east London and her previous address in Essex has at least one company registered to it which she is involved in!!

My brother in law then started using his contacts and discovered that the UK companies, registered at my address, are all in deep debt as they have taken out business loans and never repaid a penny. Also, she is on job seekers allowance and is even claiming council tax relief whilst being a director of the companies registered at my address AND other companies at other addresses. Also, it transpires, she has a British passport in one of her other names....

Could she be a bit crooked me wonders.....

Anyway, with the help of the agency who found her, she was served with a Section 21 notice in early December and still the house is still full of some of her possesions and most of mine (it was rented furnished).

Then, after 2 months of no rent, the Section 8 was served....I say served....it was delivered to the house and messages were left on her answerphones so "served" in this instance does not mean she has actaually seen it!! Then, by some miricle, she rang the rental agency on Tuesday last week and, having spoken to them, rang me!! Apparently, she had gone to Nigeria and hurt her back and so was unable to come back for another 3 to 4 weeks and, despite setting up a standing order for the rent, the bank never pay it (we use the same bank so how hard can it be) and, because she is out of the country, the bank will not take a telephone instruction to pay me the rent AND she can't use her internet banking to pay me!! Funny how all these things work for me from here in Portugal with the same bank....but then I'm in credit....for now!!

I told her that she has been served with the notices and unless she pays up then she is out and, even if she does pay up, she leaves in early February anyway.

Have I recieved any moneys?? Nope!! and 2 weeks has now elapsed so the (now very helpful) rental agency are gonna goto get a court date (which could be for 3 weeks time) and then she will be evicted!!!!

I have flown back to the UK once to deal with this and will have to again either for her eviction date or in early Feb when she leaves anyway. I have some friends who will help evict her if needs be, but anyone in the Essex area who wants to join in the fun around that time is welcome :)

I shall keep you all posted of progress as it occurs!!

Oh....and thank god I took out rent insurance...even if it is bloody slow paying up AND has the deposit as the "excess" so I shall have to swallow the bill for sorting a damaged wall and sorting the back garden which has not been touhed since the begining of June.....

Andrew 175

Andrew wrote this on 2009-12-30 15:12:32 Hi All,

Further to the above....things have just got worse.

When I have got my head together I shall put it in writing and invite opinions....

Andrew 176

twattybollocks wrote this on 2009-12-31 11:37:20 Andrew,

it is not racist to exclude certain ethnicities. I, forexample, wont have Chinese, Taiwanese etc as their wok cooking destroys the kitchen with oil, fat and grease!

be careful about evicting. YOU are not allowed to do it - it has to be by a court appointed bailif. If you do it (including removing any of her belongings) you could be sued for illegal eviction even thoug an eviction notice has been issued!

If it was only as easy as sending the boys around........!!!!

TB

PS; tell us more! 177

Arkadian wrote this on 2009-12-31 11:48:02 Well,

I wouldn't have Chinese either. I have I think 3 lots and the experience was overall rather negative. They do pay, but they leave the house in a total mess. One lot just disappeared.

As to Nigerians, I have recently had two lots:
Woman No. 1 and her family: ideal, paid always on time, no hassle, left the house the way she found it. I was really luck with her (and she had 3 small kids)
Woman No. 2: Paid always late (after a few reminders), in the end she did a runner (no big deal, flat was let again shortly after), but at least the flat was messy, but OK. The interesting thing is that she had post (including utilities) coming with at least 3 different surnames. Hhmmmm

As far as I can tell eastern Europeans (Poles, Czecks and even Romanians) are the best: minimum hassle, prompt payers, reasonably tidy.

Brits are a bit risky (never mind DSS), especially students. I much rather foreigners.

Obviously this is only anecdotal experience, but there you are...

Happy new year. 178

Andrew wrote this on 2009-12-31 18:38:20 Hi All,

As I said yesterday, I shall put finger to keyboard when I have got my head together and so I am…

Firstly, thank you to Twatty and Arkadian for their words of wisdom regarding my situation. Personally, I think anecdotal experience from those who are doing it is most probably the most valuable advice going! Which is why I have read most of this site with avid interest recently.

So, what’s been occurring…

Well, I had an e-mail yesterday from my tenant finding agency (who have been helping with the unpaid rent situation) to update me on where everything is.

The first and most major point is….I have a court date for my Section 8 eviction!!! 19/2/2010. OK. Got a bit excited there till I realized that this is AFTER the Section 21 notice has expired so they should have been gone for 2 weeks already by then. However, I then thought about this and recalled Donna’s experiences when she was pregnant and have decided that having this court date in my back pocket is most probably a good idea ?. Thank you Donna for sharing your tale.

The e-mail then went on to tell me about the other issue the agency have been dealing with.

When they found me the tenant, they performed various functions on my behalf….for a price obviously….but as I was here in Portugal sorting things out I needed them to do this at the time. So, they sorted the deposit arrangements and the sorted the rent payment insurance. They originally suggested the idea and, as the rent is my primary source of income here in Portugal, I decided it was a good idea to have this protected.

The way it worked was also a nice simple up front payment which was part of the arrangement fee so, again, not a problem. Rather like the deposit they have also kept the paperwork so I have not seen the policy document or any other details about it BUT I have made sure I kept Griffin Residential Lettings in Grays (oops maybe should not have mentioned that…oh well….tooo late now!!) informed of how the rent payments have been going specifically so they can deal with the rent payment insurance if as and when needed.

Well, it would appear that they have not kept me informed about what needed to be done with regard to this as, it appears, the policy expired at the end of the fixed term of the AST , and did not continue as the AST can, at which point the tenant was 1 month in arrears which is covered by the deposit which they regard as the excess on the policy so…nothing to pay up!!

Oh…and whilst they are at it…..as the tenant was in arrears they will also not allow renewal of the policy either!!

As we all know, tenants pay in advance so they only start being in “arrears” when they are really a month overdue for a payment anyway which is why, come 6/1/10 I shall be down £3,300 and, given the bullshit phone call I received from her 2 weeks ago, she will not be back in the country by then so definitely no chance of any rent!!!

As work has not been as forethcoming as I’d have liked here in Portugal, I have had to use some of my contingency money to live so this is beginning to be a rather serious issue, hence my dismay…nay…lack of calm yesterday, because not only will the previous insurance company not renew the policy but I can’t get any other insurance as nobody will insure against a tenant who is already 3 months in arrears.

So I am screwed well and truly!!

For reasons unknown, I used to work for a life assurance company, in the City it has to be said, so I have a reasonable feel for finance and how insurance companies and their legislation works. Also my father, who is sadly no longer with us, worked for in insurance for most of his working life….so it occurred to me that this idea of not allowing renewal if the tenant was in arrears might be a smidge unreasonable. As it happens I have also, recently, had occasion to take on Admiral over a car insurance renewal so just happen to have a direct e-mail address into the Financial Ombudsman’s Office. I have a feeling this and the FSA website may be coming in handy in the early part of next year…..

Finally in my e-mail back to Griffin, I told them that as they had arranged the insurance, not shown me the policy and failed to ensure it was renewed or advise me that it needed renewing, I was holding them responsible for any loss of income I incurred. I also told them that as the deposit is considered the rent insurance excess they could damned well arrange for that to be paid to me as soon as possible.

So….that’s the story so far.

If anyone has had any experience of dealing with rent payment insurance, I’d be most appreciative of any advice, tips or info you could share.

For now though…..may you all have a very happy and prosperous 2010!!!!

Andrew 179

Rackman wrote this on 2010-01-22 16:26:48 If you as a forum are representative of Landlords god help the less fotunate folks of this world. 180

Arkadian wrote this on 2010-01-22 16:35:20 Prey, Rackman, what is your point? Here congregate mostly horror stories from landlords with hideous tenants. What are they supposed to say?
To top it up, one of my tenants (DSS - very good up to a couple of months ago) out of the blue has decided to stop paying and has now announced she is moving out. Prey, what am I to do apart from taking her to the small claims court? I would like to stress there have been no issues with the house at all.

A. 181

Twattybollocks wrote this on 2010-01-22 16:54:49 Hey Rackman!

Are you a Landlord yourself?

If yes - you should know better!
If No - Fuck Off!! You have no idea what life is like as a landlord!

Twatty. 182

Rach wrote this on 2010-01-23 14:15:49 Well said Twatty, Rackman is obviously not a landlord :D

My saga is still continuing. Fortunately, I've been in contact with Legal4Landlords and may I say they are fantastic.

My charity case is still in the flat and I've not had rent for 3 months now. L4L have been working hard and have managed to get a surrender of lease - she HAS to be out on 15th February.
As I have her work address, and that of the guarantor, im in the fortunate position that ill be able to get an attachment of earnings and bung on top the legal expenses.
God knows what the property will be like when I finally get in - not sure if I commented on the last 'inspection' that I couldn't do as I was nearly sick at the smell and state of the property.
But light at the end of the tunnel.....I shall be there at midnight on 16th Feb with a locksmith!!!!!!
What am I going to do after I get the property back?.......not sure if I have the faith in human nature to rent to someone again. If I decide to, I know that I will not have the friendly attitude towards any tenant that I decide on...purely professional otherwise they take the piss.....shame that you have to be like that.
Please celebrate with me on the 16th...............I hope :S 183

RACKMAN wrote this on 2010-01-23 14:29:15 A TWAT or TWATTY
•The word twat has various functions, its primary meaning being a vulgar synonym for the human vulva, vagina, or clitoris IN OTHER WORDS A CUNT sounds like you 184

Twattybollocks wrote this on 2010-01-23 14:45:28 Hey Rackman - nice retort. Obviously I did not know that before I used it as my handle! Cuntybollocks or cuntytwat did not have the same ring to it. Mind you at least cunts, unlike you, are useful!

So, as I said in my previous post, regarding you being a landlord -

If yes - you should know better!
If No - Fuck Off!! You have no idea what life is like as a landlord!

Twatty. 185

Andrew wrote this on 2010-01-23 19:56:26 Dear All,

For heavens sake Rackman and Twatty!! Calm yourselves!!

As for Rach, sounds like you are getting a result in the end. If the house is in a bit of a state, as a qualified handyman who does all sorts to sort out houses....if your anywhere near Essex or Kent (that part of the UK) and would like a hand then please let me know. I am not expensive....honest!!

Anywhen....to continue the saga of my house in deepest darkest Essex....

My adorable tenant has now returned from Nigeria!! I had a feeling that, if a rented property was knowingly going to be unoccupied for any length of time, the landlord was supposed to be informed. But then, when your not actually paying the rent, then 12th of November to 14th January is not long really....

Griffins, bless their cotton socks, have been making all sorts of efforts to contact her (even daily visits) and she finally phoned them yesterday!! Apparently, she is due "sick pay" from work which will be coming in next week and then she is going to pay me the £3,285 that she owes me. Now, this would be good news if I didn't know she has been getting letters from the job seekers allowance peoples... However, I am gonna remain optimistic and, who knows, I may actually get some dosh!!

I am heading back to the UK from nice, warm, sunny Portugal on Wednesday and shall be hanging around till this is sorted. Hopefully, she will leave on 5/2 and I shall not have to use my court booking on 19/2, but it is there as a backstop if needs be :).

All the best...
Andrew 186

Rach wrote this on 2010-01-23 22:35:26 Cheers Andrew,

Im sure I will need a handyman.....unfortunately Im in North Wales :(.
I'm just counting down the days now until she's out of the flat and crawls back under the stone that she must have crept from under.
I really hope your charity case is out on the 5th.
Why do we do it to ourselves, there must be an easier way. I was reading a book about letting and apparently it's only approx 3% of tenants that are bad ones.............looks like us guys got the entire 3% between us.
I'll be 'tuning in' on the 5th to see what's happened....fingers crossed and good luck :D 187

Twattybollocks wrote this on 2010-01-24 10:14:43 Hey Andrew - you are right. My apologies for getting into a playground handbagging.

Rach: Hope you get this sorted soonest. Don't worry - there are lots of great people out there - the fun is to find them. I am sure you will be ok. Just remember that YOU cannot evict her or remove her belongings - it has to be done by the court appointed bailif. Otherwise you could be sued for illegal eviction - even if you have the courts approval to get your place back.

TB 188

Andrew wrote this on 2010-01-24 12:46:57 Rach,

North Wales is a nice place to be but sadly a little far as I shall only have a borrowed car on occasions. Hopefully you know or will find someone local who will sort you out.

Thank you for your good wishes and I shall be keeping my fingers crossed for you too.

I shall also be putting fingers to keyboard as events unfold....

Andrew 189

Property Genius wrote this on 2010-02-07 17:09:10 As I said on a previous post, I manage just over 900 properties and out of that have a list of 57 which are in arrears. Most will be paid within 40 days or so but it is a head ache to say the least. The worst is when I have that first conversation with a naive landlord who promptly says at 7 days late, "Well you tell those tenants if you don't relive the rent by close of business today you will serve them notice to get the hell out of property!"

Sheepishly then have to reply, "I completely agree, it is out of order and I'm doing everything we can for you, however, i'm afraid my hands are tied when it comes to serving notice on your non-paying tenants... see.... they can actually not leave for another 6 months."

Then there's silence on the phone while the poor landlord is in disbelief, "What so you're saying they would stay there for half a year without paying anything?" - "Yes Mr/Mrs Landlord, afraid so."

Here's why:
Tenants must be 2 full months in arrears before the Section 8 Notice can be written (so 3 months rent arrears). The Section 8 Notice gives them 14 days to pay, then you go to Solicitors to draw up additional paperwork, sign the witness statement etc and post to the court to get a hearing. Court Dates are usually set for 2 months after this (so now 4-5 months in arrears). You go to court, Judge looks over the agreement and Section 8 Notice and sees the dates are correct and puts a rubber stamp on a document ordering the possession notice and giving the tenant an additional 14 days to leave. 14 days comes and goes - you can't force them out so you need court approved bailiffs. Solicitor applies to court for bailiff action and they come back with your date usually 6 weeks time of issuing taking the arrears now to 6 months.

Bailiffs go around and tenants left in their own sweet time the day before, probably moved into another privately owned property up the road. It hardly seems fair does it! 190

Rach wrote this on 2010-02-16 22:53:32 Hey everyone,

****UPDATE*****NEWSFLASH****UPDATE*****
She's gone.....my charity case has finally GONE!!!!!
With thanks to Stephen at Legal4Landlords she surrendered the lease and i've been to my flat tonight and changed the lock - I can't tell you all what a relief it was to finally do that.
Negative side is the mess that has been left. Hopefully i'll be able to get the rent back that she owes (not paid since November) and the deposit will cover most of the cost of skip hire, boiler repair and replacing the carpet - that is replacing the one room of carpet that she has taken away and the rest that is completely minging.
Why do some people have to be like this?
I hope everything is working out for the rest of you. I'll let you know when I get the rent owed
Rach x 191

debbie wrote this on 2010-02-27 16:40:09 I am on benefits and have my rent paid but my situation is the council for not getting rent paid into my bank as they took down the wrong sort code and account number. Council now owe us nearly 2 months rent. We keep on to them and they keep saying they will get it sorted. They said if we have a written letter from landlord with eviction then they can pay straight away??????????.......Its not all about people on benefits not wanting to pay rent, we are trying to pay so much every week from JSA and child tax credits to get rent cleared because of mistake from council!!!!!!!!! Landlord still not happy with this. Comments please. 192

Arkadian wrote this on 2010-02-27 17:22:08 Same here... the council paid one of my tenant's rent into the wrong account despite being told (and they acknowledge it), but also say the tenant should recoup the money from the bank, who, in turn, are not interested... Catch 22:( 193

debbie wrote this on 2010-02-27 20:00:52 well have emailed my landlord today I do hope he takes onboard what i been informed, you know some private tenants do want to pay rent but for some circumstances they cant, not because of their reasaons. 194

debbie wrote this on 2010-02-27 20:04:57 am not sure what to do. my landlord hasa evicted notice, i have paqids £100 but still owe less that 2 months rent 195

Andrew wrote this on 2010-03-02 00:19:34 Dear all,

Sorry, I have been rather remiss in not keeping you all up to date, but then things have been a tad busy so hpoefully you will forgive me just this once....

OK, so, as you may recall, the story so far is that I have not been paid any rent since October and I have served a Section 21 notice, which expired on 5/2 and a Section 8 notice for which I had a court date of 19/2....

Well, amazingly......she came to court!!! It was quite a shock to the guys from the rental agency who found her in the first place too!! We all walked into a room with a judge person sat at the end and the agents, who I had asked to act on my behalf as they have done this kind of thing before, explained the circumstances and how much was owed. The judge then gave her a chance to say her piece. We had to sit there and listen to the usual rubbish about having gone on holiday and been taken ill and so the company she worked for had cancelled her contract....blah blah blah.....yawn.... but then she dropped a whole new bombshell. She is now 3 months pregnant!!!!!

Hang on a mo...let's do some maths here...that would mean she was SO ill on holiday she couldn't fly home for months but she was able to get pregnant.....

Anywhen, the agent and I managed not to laugh which was good coz the judge may not have appreciated that, and when she was done the judge asked her a wonderful question. He asked...."What do you expect me to do about all that?" to which she had no answer what so ever.

So, he gave her 14 days to get out, made the debt figure a court order debt so I can now pass it onto a debt collection agency with much greater ease AND awarded costs against her to!!

Sadly, but then he was most probably legally bound to do so, he then explained that should she not leave on or before 5/3 then I could ask the court to appoint bailiffs, without another hearing, and they would take between 1 and 2 weeks but they would throw her arse out on the street....maybe not phrased like that but you get the idea.

So....where are we now....she is still there and is showing no signs of moving. My neighbour spies have seen no packing and the other person who is there and seems to be living in one room is still there too.

I have come back to Portugal coz I got bored with the cold. It seems to be as rainy here as in the UK so no difference there but at least it is warm!!

I have given the agency permission to sort out bailiffs if as and when they are required so, hopefully, I shall not need to come back for a few weeks yet.

Lastly, on a kinda funny note, I also spoke to the agency about finding some new tenants to replace her when she does eventually leave. As you may recall she is Nigerian. Well.....they have some folk locally who's landlord is selling the house from under them, all above board so not an issue that way, but they may well need a new place to live just at the point when my house is available. They have been paying £1,400 a month for the past 2 years by direct debit, every month on time and are deemed perfect tenants. One problem.....they are Nigerian too....

So....I throw it open to the floor.....should I accept these folk or not??

I hope everyone elses issues get resolved soon....
Andrew 196

Andrew wrote this on 2010-03-04 21:55:19 Dear All,

Well, there has been a development!!!
Apparently, my delightful freeloading tenant "can't leave" on 5/3 when the court order says she has to be out BUT she will be leaving on 13/3...or so she said to the agency this morning.

So, this leaves me in a quandry.

Do I book bailiffs and pay £120, who will take 3 weeks or do I wait the extra week and see if she actually goes??

It really does my head in all this!!!!

May your troubles be less than mine.....
Andrew 197

Andrew wrote this on 2010-03-07 21:03:40 Dear All,

Well, I came to a decision in the end and have instructed bailiffs as she is most probably lying as she seems to do his compulsively.

I am also going to head back to the UK as soon as I can and, with luck, will actually be there to watch her leave and make sure she does not take any of my stuff. With any luck, this time next week i shall be rid of her!!!!

Here's hoping you only have minor issues!!
Andrew 198