Tenant’s Right To Live In Quiet Enjoyment

GillsMan2009-08-14 19:23:18 Yeah, this is absolutely my understanding as well. 1

Jools2009-08-17 20:55:03 If the tenant says no - you are not allowed to enter! Wonder if this is different for HMO's or multi lets? Do you have to get the permission of all tenants to show someone around? 2

david2009-10-16 17:13:42 Although if you think there is an emergency like smoke or leaky plumbing the 24hr rule need not apply 4

CKB2010-01-08 16:53:28 any idea how often a landlord is allowed to inspect a property under quiet possession? i think 6 monthly is reasonable, others think 3 is ok - a friends landlord is inspecting every 2 months! 5

Sarah2010-03-21 15:53:41 Our landlord comes round every fortnight. He's coming round two weeks in a row now. Is this legal? Because we are all getting annoyed by his constant visits, but he got in a huff when we questioned him about it. 6

Jools2010-03-21 16:17:57 No it is not reasonable. You need to write a letter to him stating that the two weekly visits are unreasonable and that unless he stops you will have no option than to report him to the local council for harrassment.

If he points you towards anything in the AST then it is probabl worth persuing a claim under unfair contracts. 6 monthly is reasonable but IMHO 2 months is not and certainly 2 weeks is taking the piss.

You are in the right here BUT be seen to ben reasonable in your approach!

Jools 7

david2010-03-21 23:38:24 2 weeks does seem persistent but possibly not for a HMO.
As a self managing landlord,that is, not thru a letting agent I find the inspection a vital aspect of safeguarding any tenancy.
It is important to ensure the tenant is keeping the property as per the agreement with no additional people living there and keeping place in order.
Some of our long termers we inspect every 3 mths as per our AST, others,those who are behind on rent and may be ready to skip or younger and not so good on housekeeping we check more often.
Its common sense,its still their home but still our property,SIMPLES!
If a tenant didn't want to let me inspect it would certainly ring alarm bells.
This is probably an area where good tenancies live or die,an active interest in the property nips problems in the bud and a chat to get things back on track rather than a chase through the courts and a CCJ! 8

Newbie landlord2010-04-08 21:35:16 Hi

Not sure if I have put this on the right thread - but here goes.

I have recently started to let a property to what appears to be a pleasant young couple.

The property is very close to where I live and one of the tenants' neighbours has called round to my house complaining about the tenants. Apparently they are noisy during the day ( although they both work full time) and the neighbour is a shift worker and can't sleep. It sounds like the neighbour approached them rather undiplomatically and there was a bit of an argument.

I don't really want to get involved. I did my best to get good tenants, and unless they are having wild parties every weekend, or filling the garden with rubbish so it becomes rat infested etc, I don't think I should be interfering with the tenants' use of the property.

Do I owe any particular duty of care to the neigbours? and if so how do I balance this with the tenants' right of quiet enjoyment?

Thanks 9

david2010-04-13 10:11:29 At what point will you step in to safeguard your investment?
when the dispute has escalated to unreconcileable differences between these peoples?
You did your best to get good tenants,are they not worth keeping?
A chat with your tenant highlighting the problem,pointing out they have the right to enjoy the peace and quiet of their home but so do their neighbours.
Its community....simples!

We often encounter this kind of dispute and act quickly to stop escalation of bad feeling,knocking on neighbours door if the noise is coming from there.
Otherwise the tenant leaves if they are unhappy with neighbours.
Its hands on management but saves having to interview for new tenants! 10

Jools2010-04-13 10:41:11 I have the same problem with one of my properties - I do feel very sorry for the tenants however as it is the neighbour who is being unreasonable! Who is breaching who's quiet enjoyment?

As always with these things there are two sides to every story.

My advice is to ask the neighbour to contact the local councils environmental health/noise department. They will initially send a letter to the tenants (and to you) stating that a complaint has been made. If this does not help - the council will issue a noise diary to the neighbours so they can document the alledged nusiance. If this shows a trend the council will then send around noise monitoring equipment to record the alledged nuisance and then take appropriate action.

As a Landlord you do have some responsibility but if the tenants and neighbours are acting like children and you have been shown to have been reasonable in your trying to deal with the problem then there is nothing the council can do to prosecute you.

My issue is that the property is let to a company so the residents are not tenants but employees of the company. As such I have no authority to bollock them as they don't work for me.

I know that the neighbour works shifts but that is not the fault of your tenants and they have the right to live their lives reasonably. Some houses are very poorly sound insulated and after all different sounds annoy people in different ways.

David, do you find that the mediation approach works? Do you get the parties together?

Cheers

Jools 11

david2010-04-13 11:19:53 I bodyswerve getting the parties together as i am not a very good referee!
I talk to both parties individually and make sure both are aware they have the right to quiet enjoyment of their home as do their neighbours.
I am often suprised at what minor stuff(to us),tenants get upset about, and have ignored it at my cost.
I think most people are unaware of the effect they are having on other tenants.
I make no separation between my tenants and the neighbours (who may not be my tenants)in disputes ,I just want peace,so i speak to both parties,clarify the issue, and provide a solution or a threat of the consequences if things don't change.
The ASB noise team are effective and are good for taking away all noise making devices from persistent offenders,that means TV,Ipods,Boom boxes,HiFi's,radio alarms!
I give tenants Anti Social Behavior Noise 1-800 number and encourage them to phone as soon as the noise starts.
So far, getting involved,talking about the problem whether it is noise or washing lines (WTF!)has worked.
If there is complaint about an anti-social neighbour that won't listen to reason the choice is to let it fester and lose tenants or get council involved and use their experts to close the problem.
It beats the hassle of finding new tenants! 12

Newbie landlord2010-04-13 22:17:32 Thank you for your replies.

I have spoken to the tenants. They do seem very reasonable, and there is nothing to suggest that they are making a great deal of noise. The property is mid terraced and the other neighbour says she has not heard their TV or music etc. they don't normally slam doors or shout.

It seems that the problem lies with the shift working neighbour. As I suspected the complaint, which was initially to the wife, was none too polite, and the husband came home when he was ranting. He told him to leave as he was upsetting his wife. The neighbour had then come straight to my house. The tenants did say that they had no idea of the neighbour's shift pattern.

I have also spoken again to the neighbour. To be fair he was quite reasonable this time. He had been tired and frustrated about not being able to get to sleep, and after lots of other noise (not from my tenants) the final straw had been her starting to mow the lawn. I have told him that I realise it must be hard to have to try to sleep when everyone else is awake, but that I can't expect the tenants to make no noise. If he had an owner occupier next to him he could have the same problem.

I have left things at that, apart from asking the tenants to let me know if they have further problems, and telling the neighbour that I will intervene if the tenants cause an unreasonable nuisance.

Watch this space! 13

Eils2010-05-06 13:09:36 Yes the landlord can enter the property with 24 hours notice as it is an implied covenant but it is only for disrepair and the landlord must have notice of the repairs from the tenant in order to enter. Otherwise he needs expressed permission from the tenant to go in otherwise he breaches quiet enjoyment of the tenant. Teh landlord owns the bricks and mortar but it is the tenants home and the landlord gives up right of entry when he rents it out. If you rent out a car from Avis you dont expect an Avis employee to take it for a spin on a Saturday afternoon! The tenant has the right to exclude the whole world from the property including the landlord. If a landlord steps over the threasehold and the tenant asks him to leave and he doesnt he becomes a trespasser. 14

Eils2010-05-06 13:12:28 With a HMO a landlord can enter the common parts but not the rooms. The tenant has a license to the common parts but exclusive possession of their room. 15

diane2010-05-20 11:56:46 I am with a Housing Agency. The manager let a workman into my flat without asking or informing me. The workman was left unsupervised. I have a small dog, as well as all my private papers bank details etc in drawers in my flat. I was not informed after the event and found out because I noticed the work that had been carried out. What is my position. 16

Francina2010-08-22 05:22:04 Hello can anyone advise me? I have recently rented a property from a private land lord whom I know socially. The property is a small house with its own garden. One of my reasons for taking this property is that I love the garden and wanted to do things with it, such as putting pots of flowers out on the lawn, growing some veg in a small bed and flowers, and maybe putting in one or two small trees. Nothing i do would cause a problem to neighbours. I am willing to put the garden back to the way it was if necessary on vacation of property. My land lord has objected to some of the things i want to do, i mentioned them to her out of courtesy but did not expecat am objection. Does she have the right to object, i thought as a tenant i had the right to use the garden as my own, and i'm not going to do anything bad to it. Also, she has mentioned she wants to get the tops cut off a tree that is already there, and possibly cut one down. Is she allowed to do this wile im living there if i object to it? I don't want the first thing done but she said it's to stop the roots growing further towards house, but the second would break my heart and is not necessary for maintenance. Any advice? 17

Jools2010-08-22 15:55:47 Francina,

I am assuming you live in England or Wales!

You really need to look at the Tenancy agreement. When you sign the agreement for a house, unless specifically prohibited in the agreement itself, you would naturally assume the garden to form part of the tenancy. If this is the case then the LL has no right to interfere with what is essentially your home.

She only has the right to object if the work you intend to do causes a Health and Safety issue that would negate her public liability insurance. If the tree is causing damage to the foundations of the property then she is entitled to take action to stop this, but I don't see how cutting off the top will affect root penetration? Rule of thumb is if you look at the canopy of the tree then the root system will be upto 5 times that diameter (really!!). If the house falls within this diameter then it really should be taken away to prevent foundation damage.

The second tree is different (unless it falls into above category). She will have to give you statutory notice to enter the property/land and should have the tree felled by a professional arborist but I don't think there is anything you can do unless the tree is protected by a tree preservation order (check with your local council's planning department). No one likes to see trees destroyed BUT IF the trees have the potential to destroy or damage property then that overides the tree.

If she continues with her objections to what you are doing in the garden then you need to check to see if the AST is fair and does not contain unreasonable clauses such as preventing garden maintenance.

I employ a professional gardener for all my properties to avoid situations such as this and mention to new tenants that whilst I have no objections to them planting, I would like them to consult my gardener to avoid damaging exisiting plants etc.

Hope this helps.

Jools

Just re-read the above and my ansewr is - no I don't think she is being reasonable regarding planting and yes I think she is being reasonable regarding the second tree and needs more info regarding the first! 18

Francina2010-08-23 01:48:04 Hi jools thanks for your answer. The tree she mentioned cutting down was not because it was causing a danger to the property, only I think because she feels it blocks the light, or possibly is concerned about the roots though to be honest there's no reason to believe they are coming near the house. I'm wondering if she would have to prove it is causing a threat to the house in order to but it down, I just think she wants it removed for aesthetic reasons and surely she can't do this if i don't want it done and it's me who lives here? I'm interested what you said re the first tree. Others have also said it's debatable whether cutting the tops off would stop root growth, in fact it may increase it. I think she has reneged a bit on the other issues. It's quite hard cos she's a friend so I don't want to come at her with "it's my rights" but it's good to know what they are. 19

Francina2010-08-23 01:56:53 Sorry forgot to say, yes i live in England, and all the tenancy agreement says is that i should keep the garden neat and tidy. There is no clause re not planting etc. Also on the tenancy there is no non smoking clause, does this mean I have a right to smoke in th property? Actually i'm a non smoker but I have some friends who smoke. They don't come round all that often but I don't want to make them smoke outside, out of preference I don't mind my friends having the odd cigarette here, it's probably the equivalent of one per month if that, should i check this with her? 20

Jools2010-08-23 09:36:54 If she is concerned about the roots then they pose a danger to the property!! Also, if you consider a tree with a 10 foot diamater canopy will have roots upto 50 feet away then the tree does pose an issue to structure!

It does not matter who lives in the property - if the tree stays because you want it there are you going to pay for any repairs to the sub structure of the property? Course not!! She does not have to prove anything unless the tree is protected by a TPO.

The Non Smoking clause may - MAY be an unfair contract term but you need to investigate whether this is so. If your friends smoke then you will be laible for any damage to carpets etc or for re-decoration when you leave To rid the smell of stale tobacco.

Jools 21

Francina2010-08-23 17:00:24 Well one cigarette per month is hardly going to make anything smell of stale tobacco. Also my post said that there is NOT a non smoking clause so you have rather missed my point. I'm not sure why you are so convinced that she has a reason to be concerned about roots, there is no evidence that they are damaging the property, I think my question was reasonable. I stated that I believe her to want to cut the tree down for aesthestic reasons, not due to root problems. I do not see how she has a right to enter the property i'm renting and do this unless the tree roots are definately causing a problem. That's all. Anyway, she may not want to have it felled, she just said she was thinking about it. Thank you for you answers. 22

Jools2010-08-23 17:44:01 Oh Errrr. Whos getting their pantyhose in a twist then? Why not drop the snotty attitude and accept the fact that I am trying to help you. If you are not interested in then why bother asking the question in the first place?

Your double negative threw me but anyway - it's still good advice for the future. You are here asking for advice after all!! How do you know the roots are not damaging the property? Are you a qualified surveyor? Are you a qualified tree surgeon? Do you have x-ray vision to see through the earth to see the location of the roots or the condition of the foundation? Thought not!

Let me be clear. ANY tree that is within a certain distance from a property poses a risk. The "certain" Distance depends upon the type of tree. As previously stated the root ball will be upto 5 times the diameter of the canopy. Believe it or not you are not the only person reading this blog so my advice goes out to all and sundry. If she is only THINKING about it - why pose the question now if you are not prepared to listen to advice?

It's her tree - she can do what the F*** she wants with it. As long as she gives you the minimum notice she can enter your property. There, is that the answer you wanted?

FFS - some people!

Jools 23

Best Brian2010-08-25 00:12:15 Jools I just stumbled on this site and I'm a land lord, and a quantity surveyor. I totally fail to understand why you are attacking this lady, she quite obviously is trying to do the right thing and I fail to see how your verbal attacks are helpful to anyone. You clearly did not read her question correctly and there's nothing unreasonable about it. As a land lord I would not cut down a tree my tenant clearly loved unless there was obvious danger to the property, only very large, old trees or close trees would be likely to cause such damage. I would be very careful before giving notice to cut a tree down that was not an obvious danger. Are you advocating all trees near properties need cutting down? Would you say the same about knocking down a wall of the house? I think your answer shows you are unpleasant and mentally unhinged. I wish I had a tenant who was so obviously dilligent and trying to get her facts straight as this lady, or indeed wants to care for and loves the garden so much. 24

Jools2010-08-25 08:38:09 Here we go!

Brian - If YOU read my posts propertly you will see that I have stated more than once that it is distance from the property that is important as well as the type of tree.I do not advocate the indiscriminate cutting down of trees - but if they pose a threat to the property then they should go - especially if the trees have shallow root systems that can be affected in high winds by large sail area canopies. There is more danger of these falling and causing damage to roofs etc as opposed to deep root systems that cause damage to sub-structures.

If you want to see how damaging roots can be just look at how powerful Ivy is. Are you saying that just because IVY looks gorgeous it does not damage walls? What about the small christmas tree you plant next to your house that looks cute for a few years and then turns into a 25 foot + monster. Are you telling me that this will not cause damage?

Why would you be very careful before giving notice to cut down a tree that was not an obvious danger? You can't give a statement like that without giving the reason why!! Why would I want to knock a wall down if it was built properly? If it was close to my property and looked dangerous I would indeed take it down or re-build it. Last time I looked though stones/bricks did not have penetrating roots. Don't see your point there - sorry.

If you think those are verbal attacks then you really have not read my other posts have you?

I have been called many things by all sorts of people in the past but never "unpleasant and mentally unhinged" - by a Quantity Surveyor!! HA - you have made my year!

My philosophy is that if you cut down a tree you plant another somewhere else that is more appropriate. Trees are great, trees are beautiful. I enjoy hugging them and yes, talking to them BUT they have a place and trees do have a 'useful' life span depending on their species. Oaks et al - hundreds if not thousands of years in a woodland or forest. Firs - somewhere in the region of 25 years depending on location.

Jools
(very chuffty and off to tell my friends).

PS: As a surveyor I would expect you to know a little more about the subject but as a QS I suppose not. I am all for getting facts right - perhaps you should take a leaf out of your own book?

PPS: As a QS do you have x-ray vision? 25

Best brian2010-08-27 02:02:42 Jools, what exactly are you chuffy about? The fact that you said "it's her tree, she can do what the F**K she wants with it" or "FFS some people", which is clearly an insult? No, I don't have x ray vision, it's true. I don't understand what reading your other posts has to do with whether or not you have made a verbal attack, it clearly was, and your other posts that I've seen are not like this. Your points about trees are correct, my point is that without knowing anything more about this tree, and the information in francina's post seems to indicate that it may be only for aesthetic reasons that the ll wants it removed, we cannot assume it's a danger to the property, and in this case I, as a land lord, would breach my tenants rights to enter their property for this purpose as the tree is part of the property they rented, in the same way as a wall is, and no I would not knock down a safe wall or a safe tree. If on the other hand the tree comes into the categories you describe, yes the roots are a potential problem. In this case I would still want to investigate how bad the problem is before proceeding. 26

Jools2010-08-27 15:00:54 I am chufty about the fact that I have been called "unpleasant and mentally unhinged" by a QS but you will probably see that as a verbal attack so I am pretty much stuffed. Surveyors are not very high on my list of competent people given the fact that in my professional and personal life my last two attempts at dealing with surveyors have involved the resignation of the RICS surveyors because my construction company and structural engineers have provided evidence that the surveyors were inept. Yes I know there are good and bad surveyors as there are good and bad Landlords, estate agents, Tenants etc. Anyway.............

I do agree that my replied were based upon available data but therein lies the problem. Very often we only get one side of the story on here (usually biased towards the writer - be they tenant or Landlord) and that story is usually based on a subject that has an emotional context. My reply was based on the basic information given. OK - I did not read/misread the bit about the smoking clause in the original post - but I still stand by the fact that the information I have given is pertinent, factual and correct.

If the original poster had provided additional information like tree species, distances etc we both would be in a better position to provide accurate information but since she did'nt then we can't.
If you don't make assumptions then you can't begin to provide an answer. Surely you make assumptions every day in your job as a QS? You have to make assumptions regarding contract cost, estimates of quantity etc. It's only when you get the other side to provide hard facts that you are able to harden up the estimates into quotes.

I have to dissagree that you would breach your tenants rights in this case since as long as you gave requisite notice you would be allowed entry. They may object or say no at which point you politely ask them to sign a disclaimer stating that if they or any of their friends etc are injured by the trees they will not hold youu responsible and they in fact will make the necessary provision for providing liability insurance. Now then, since it is not possible to insure someone elses items it would be in their interest to allow you access to ascertain whether the tree is vunerable or not.

I still think that she was getting stroppy on her reply and I stand by my remarks. I will let other people make up their own mind about my mental stability not that I really give a monkeys about what you or others may think. If my posts encourage thinking or at least the need to peruse the subject further to gain a greater understanding of the matter then surely that is a good thing?

Jools

PS - hope everyone has a great weekend. 27

Best Brian2010-09-05 01:16:45 Hi Jools. Thanks for your reply. I see where you're coming from. The only thing I would say is that access to ascertain the status of the tree is not the same thing as access to knock it down without knowing if it's vunerable. I think this is what the poster may have been concerned about, and that's what I as a landlord would not do. But as she has not posted again we're not sure. I apologise for calling you mentally unhinged, I did think your reaction to francina's post seemed a bit out of proportion but you're obviously rational most of the time and you make some very good points. Sorry to hear you've had bad experiences with surveyors. I guess you will add me to the list! Thanks anyway for answering my posts, all the best Brian 28

Jools2010-09-05 15:58:11 Hey Brian,

The whole point of this site is to provoke discussion - it would be a boring world if we all agreed all the time!

No apology required! You are not on my list!! It's far too long at the moment!!

Cheers

Jools 29

Barry G2010-09-10 14:15:54 Hello was hoping i could get some advice , I am currently renting out a property on an AST and have recently found out i should have got an EPC assesment done but did'nt. I now need to gain access to get one but tenant is refusing entry , where do i stand with this? what course of action can i take?

I have tried gaining access without permission from tenant but the door was bolted and was'nt answered. Am i liable for anything because of this?

thanks for any help 30

Jools2010-09-10 15:43:28 Barry,

If one tenant is saying no then that is final - but you have to ask yourself WHY they are saying no. Is it a lone female who would prefer you to be accompanied by someone? Are they trying to hide something?

Anyway your attempt at gaining access without permission means you have broken the law and effectively attempted to trespass - however trespass is a very difficult area of law best left to those who are solicitors! If you are reported for illegal entry/trespass/harassment then you could find yourself up in front of the magistrate rather sharpish.

You have also broken the law by renting your property without an EPC and have left yourself open to be fined.

I would send the tenants a letter explaining that you need entry to fulfill your legal obligations as a landlord. Try to reason with them but if they say no - you are stuffed.

Jools 31

Barry G2010-09-11 12:10:01 Thank you for your comments/advice , i realise now that i should have got an assessment done but i overlooked it as a requirement . I have spoken to a friend about this and he thinks that i can obtain an injunction at c.court to gain entry to get the assessment done what are your views on this ? The tenant is still not cooperating with my requests.

thanks again 32

Jools2010-09-12 09:52:05 So Barry, you want to go into Court to obtain an injunction to enter your property where you are going to have to admit to the magistrate that you broke the law in initially renting the property and now you want to break your tenants rights to put right your mistake?

Good luck on that one pal!

Jools 33

Liam2010-09-12 23:01:12 I'm with Jools on the tree thing! I have recently bought a property to rent out, though it is no palace... small terraced with a small back garden so I don't think I'll be having problems with trees (having said that, stupidity knows no bounds). Anyhow, good site/blog, some invaluble advice... Thanks! 34

Bev2010-09-26 07:28:27 Hi
we have recently rented a house in the suburbs. after 3 months we have recieved a compaint in writing from the agent stating our neibour (semi detached house)had complained that she headr our tv at 6 am in our bedroom and us opening our wardrobes before departing for work. We leave at 7 20 and return at 18.20 M-F. My husband and I are the only occupants and we are proffesionals in our 50's.
We went round to see the neighbour and had a polite discussion. She is a retiree and she stated that she did not get up at 6 am and wanted to remain in bed until later for a "lie in".
She then asked us to not put our tv on unless it was between the hours of 9.00-23.00. She also asked if we would take our clothes out of the wardrobes the night before so she would not be disturbed.
We are miserable and feel at 55 we are back living with our parents!
We pay £1800 a month and want to know our rights on this? are we really not allowed to have the tv on to listen to the news and traffic reports at 6am or watch a movie in bed after 23.00 hours?
Should we move? Are we able to look to the neighbour for our moving costs?
PLEASE HELP!!!
Thanks
Beverly 35

Louise2011-01-15 00:19:21 Just to advise concerning a previous question. Your Landlord may enter your property five times per calendar year, this being, once every three months and once for a yearly inspection. To enter the property they have to gain permission from the tenant for a day and time that is acceptable for the tenant. Although 24 hours is a reasonable request, the landlord must except that if this is not acceptable for the tenant, and that the tenant offers a reasonable alternative, then the landlord must accept these terms. A Landlord may only enter his or her property without your knowledge or indeed presence only if accompanied by emergency services. Some of you may find the following document helpful; The Office of Fair Trading Document OFT356 paragraph 3.32

I wish you luck as there are far too many people making money off the back of those less fortunate, and illegally at that. Whatever happened to MORALS?? And i'm only 38!! 36

matt2011-02-10 15:32:44 Hi

The landlord's agents never arrange a specify date or time, they just say sometime between 10-4 on this week. They always email, and never confirm in writing.

This means no one can possibly be in when a representative of the agents visits.

Are we within our rights to ask for a specific date? 37

Tom2011-04-04 20:07:06 The landlord to the block of flats next door to me is in the front and back gardens near the windows and in the stair well nearly every day - its a converted 4 storey Victorian terraced house. He gets on my nerves nosing round and commenting on my property, dog relatives and business in a very loud voice so God knows what it's like for his tenants. Maybe he thinks he will catch somebody in the nude or something, haha, he did used to be a Scout master until they stopped him. 38

Tom2011-04-04 20:17:52 I'm not really related to dogs, just missed out a comma. 39

ron2012-01-31 20:00:04 about two years ago some people move in the above flat the noise coming from upsairs flat is so bad that is making my life so bad that i dont want to go home after a hard days work.first was the loud music then a dog running around like crazy, the door always slamming kids running around all the time. now i even sleep in my van at night so i can some rest my landlord is not very helpful so what cani do?. 40

Jeremy2012-01-31 21:33:35 Hello Ron,

It's not your landlord's job to solve your problem, it's your job. I see you have two options:
1 - Contact your local council to start their noise nuisance process;
2 - Make plans to move out. Maybe even tell your landlord why you're moving out, depending on how well you get on. It might prompt them do something about it.

Maybe even to 1 and 2 in unison and see which pays off first. 41