Reasons Why Landlords Shouldn’t Accept DSS Tenants

Before anyone gets firmly on my tits about this, let me just clarify, this is a follow on article from The Positives Of DSS Tenants. So please, no angry hippies or DSS tenants start protesting, this is just a simple flip of the coin.

But I must confess, this list is longer than the pro-DSS tenants’ article! My bad.

DSS tenants receive a lot of negative publicity; they are seen as high-risk due to the historical view of them being people with poor credit history who don’t look after their rented property. Of course, not everyone is the same, and I’m a firm believer in everyone being judged on their own merit. You’ll find good amongst the bad. However, having dealt with several DSS tenants, I can confirm that they can come with problems, and the odds are, they will. Harsh? I prefer “accurate”

1. DSS Tenants usually carry troubled circumstances

DSS tenants are receiving benefits for a reason, so they’re often individuals with unstable and/or shady backgrounds. I’m not trying to be a pompous prick about it, but that’s just how it is in reality.

That explains why they get thrown into the high-risk and troublesome category. Granted, in cases, there are genuine cases like unfortunate people that have lost their jobs, or unable to work due to disabilities.

2. Landlords no longer receive rent directly

At one time, DSS tenants were sought after by Landlords because the council would pay the rent directly to the Landlord. Unfortunately, that changed a few years ago, consequently tenants now directly receive rent. The change occurred to encourage the tenants to become more responsible with money.

Essentially, a lot of DSS tenants caused a lot of problems for Landlords, but Landlords tolerated it because rent was guaranteed. But since tenants have been responsible for their own allowance, a lot of cases have (predictably) cropped up where tenants are failing to pass on the rent, and presumably spending the money on other things. The only real security landlords once had is no longer there.

3. DSS tenants need to cover a shortfall

DSS tenants will typically need to cover a shortfall each month. For example, if the tenant’s rent is £500pcm, they may receive an allowance of £400 per month. In that case, your tenant will have to cover a shortfall. Bearing in mind, a lot of DSS tenants aren’t working, so it’s important to investigate how the tenant will cover the shortfall.

4. Difficult to get Landlord Rental Insurance

Rental insurance is always a useful policy to have in place, especially if you’re not 100% sure of your tenants credibility.

If your tenant fails to pay rent, your rental insurance company will cover the costs. However, many insurance companies won’t insure your rent if you have a DSS tenant. And if they’re willing to, they may ask for a higher premium than a private tenant.

If insurers are refusing to insure DSS tenants, or ask for a higher premuim, the statistics should speak for themselves. These insurance companies aren’t fools.

5. The Council are useless

I’ve already raged about how useless the council are when problems occur with DSS Tenants so I won’t drag on about it too much. Basically, on various occasions throughout my involvement with DSS tenants I’ve needed to contact the council in order to resolve some outstanding issues. It goes without saying that they have been less than helpful and added to my misery. You can read a more in-depth discussion on how the council are rubbish when it comes to providing Landlords with support.

6. Even Letting Agents refuse to deal with DSS tenants

A letting agents job is to find suitable tenants for their landlords’ as quickly as possible. If they don’t find tenants, they don’t get paid, it’s that simple. So it must say something about DSS tenants if more and more letting agents refuse to deal with DSS tenants.

When a letting agent prolongs filling in vacant properties by denying a certain type of tenant, alarm bells should ring. I’m sure letting agents have dealt with DSS tenants at one point, and on the back of their experiences, they’re now refusing…

7. Allowance amount can randomly change for your tenant

I’ve been in situations where my DSS tenant’s circumstances changed, which reflected on the amount of benefits they were entitled to. For example, they were initially receiving £400pcm, but were then only entitled to £350pcm. That can cause problems because now they have more of a shortfall to cover. Of course, you may never be aware of the change, and you’re not entitled to know why the chance occured because it’s none of the Landlord’s business (according to the law).

However, it can work both ways. In some instances, the tenant’s allowance could go up. But if it lowers, there may be a knock-on affect for the landlord.

Anyone else got anything to add? If so, blurt your stuff…

482 Comments - join the conversation...

Showing 433 - 482 comments (out of 482)
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Grandma2014-01-20 18:36:49

Reply to Pumps 100 post 432. This is a vey sad story for both you AND your tenant, and just anther reason why local councils MUST start providing more social housing. I have ayoung friend who has now had to move three times because the property she was in was sold, and the buyers wanted vacant possession. Private renters have NO security at all - when forced to move thay may have to leave the area where they have jobs, friends, schools and a social network. It can be really distressing. My young friend was also advised ( by the council!) to "sit tight" until she was evicted. The landlord ( and once again, who can blame him?) became annoyed and aggressive. She was then evicted and lost half her furniture ( which she had struggled to find and buy) because she had nowhere to store it. She was moved with her two small daughters to a B&B where there where also resident drug users, and ex- prisoners, one of whom she found had been in prison for paedophilia. She had to keep anything of value or need ( such as her daughter's inhaler) in her car. Some nights they all slept IN the car. This went on for nearly nine months before she was re-housed. No- one should have to live like that. I repeat, if you are on benefits, the council should house you. Problem solved. Money stays in the council budget one way or another, tenants have security, builders have jobs. Landlords let to people who work and can afford it.

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Chris2014-01-20 18:52:13

Personally I wouldn't tell anyone if I were on HB.
I would get my family to say they employed me.
The references would match up. Even down to pay slips.
I don't care if you think it is fraudulent. I really don't.
What landlords are doing is illegal, in a lot of countries.
But apparently people want there to a shanty towns in this country.

The government will not stop HB as it would collapse the housing market.

If you don't want to rent to HB'ers fair enough but please keep your prejudices to yourself.

Arps it is a long time since I have been on hear and not read your reply.
"That's life" also if the government pay HB rent to. It doesn't really matter to me or they can afford to run a car. It is still jealousy.

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Benji2014-01-20 20:04:29


Put your money where your mouth is and act as a guarantor for your tenant- then landlords would believe in your glowing reference.
Otherwise they mean fuck all.
That would really be providing all the support you could muster.

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Tom D'Lobat2014-01-21 10:08:04

@ Benji

Even with a guarantor, the majority of private landlords and letting agencies won't touch a tenant in receipt of LHA of any amount.

I totally disagree with councils insisting that tenants sit tight until eviction - judges at the eviction hearings need to start demanding landlord and tenant costs and compensation from councils that do this, except when the eviction is due major failings of the tenant (in which case the council has no duty to rehouse anyway). That would shake things up.

If the Govt. is still unwilling to allow local councils the freedom and budget to build social housing, then I feel the law should change so that LHA (or UC when it goes live nationally) does not require any communication with a landlord. The landlords can continue to do credit checks and seek references for new tenants, but the "DSS" stigma would be removed. Bad tenants, in receipt of benefit or not, should be flagged by this means.

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Grandma2014-01-21 12:30:17

What I CANNOT understand is why no one in government has taken the issue of social housing and run with it - surely it would be an enormous vote winner? Even if they didn't do it for humanitarian reasons, they could do it to climb up the greasy pole. Renting property in this country is an area that is getting worse and worse - high rents, no security, huge stress both emotionally and financially right across the board. And with mortgages almost impossible to get more and more people are having to rent. Then the problems in this thread would disappear, along with many others.

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PresidentPeters2014-01-21 12:33:59

Do people on housing benefit vote?

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Margaret Brazear2014-01-21 12:53:09

I would like to reply to the last post from Grandma, although my reply will not be popular with the pc brigade. I retired last year from being a driving instructor and the last three pupils I had who could barely speak English, were all living in housing association houses.

And to Tom D'Lobat, there is no law that says landlords have to be informed of housing benefits. It is entirely up to the tenant whether they allow communication or not.

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Grandma2014-01-21 15:46:54

President Peters @438 - I presume you are being satirical..
Margaret @ 439 Is your argument that British people should not be given the opportunity to get a council house because there is a chance an immigrant may get one? I'm NOT one of the PC brigade, but I do believe this country can afford to house every one of it's low paid workers ( immigrants included) IF THE SYSTEM IS SET UP RIGHT. At the moment it is dog eat dog, and a cause of enormous internal social angst, not least BECAUSE of the perception that immigrants are getting all the housing. No one in the Government seems even vaguely interested, and if you Google the problem there do not seem to be any action groups. Sporadic schemes to get people rehoused, yes, but nobody actually standing up and saying THIS IS WRONG. and it IS wrong - for many many reasons - we have in fact in many ways the same problems TODAY that we had in Victorian times - poverty, overcrowding, and the rich getting fat on the poorer (I'm afraid that does include SOME landlords - not all I hasten to add) It doesn't have to be like that in this day and age - where is our compassion as a society? We sing " Land of Hope and Glory" - we should be singing " I'm all right, Jack, pull up the ladder..."

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Margaret Brazear2014-01-21 15:58:52

Grandma, My argument is that there are English people who cannot get social housing and they should get priority. If someone has not been here long enough to learn the language (and I know for a fact that they haven't) then why do they have council/housing association houses? That is my argument. I also believe that one reason no one is protesting is the danger of being charged with racism.

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Grandma2014-01-21 20:09:41

Margaret @441, please see my original post 433. This thread is about people on benefits not being able to rent privately. My contention is that people on low incomes shouldn't HAVE to rent privately. I've given my reasons why I think that makes economic sense for everyone,and now I'll shut up and get back to baking cakes for the kids... on the other hand, I might just stand for parliament...

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Jill2014-01-21 20:44:37

@ presidentprick!!!

Away you go and talk shit somewhere else you absolute knob head!!..
Can't wait to see your reply to this!! ????????????
Hoity toity twat!!!!

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Margaret Brazear2014-01-21 21:05:24

Grandma, I agree that people on hb should not have to rent privately. I was just giving one example of why there is not enough social housing to go round.

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PresidentPeters2014-01-22 01:48:58

Could you make a more consertive argument? Your last one was abit vague...perhaps a few less tins before "work" tomorrow?

The latest idea in the comments in this thread seems to be "make enough social housing for everyone who can't / doesn't want to pay for their own house" oh and by the way "everyone" includes all those within the newly extended eligible claimants within the EU ( UK tax payers can foot the bill, no worrys). Doesn't seem that sustainable to me? and I didn't need my economics degree to figure it out.

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Jill2014-01-22 08:16:48

I pay my taxes!! ????...and I don't drink! all!! Or smoke!

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Grandma2014-01-22 10:03:37

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.... President Peters - Having an economics degree doesn't necessarily make you a good candidate for sainthood... I think the crux of your post is the line "everyone who can't/doesn't want to pay for their own house" With regard to the "can't" - is it your take that they should pay top dollar rents to private landlords, regardless of whether it's via salaries or HB? And as for the "don't wants" - sorry, but who DOESN'T want to pay for their own house? Why would I want to pay £300 a week to someone else rather than putting it in my own piggy bank? I know this is not want you want to hear, but I want the taxes we pay for housing to stay within the community, I want the tax money spent on housing to accrue as property that belongs to the council. What I DON'T want is all that money paid to private landlords to spend how they like, whether it's on yachts, fluffy animals, wild women, Oxfam or building alms houses for the Deserving Poor. All it needs is someone to have the resolution to put it in place. One of the main arguments I read against it is that " The housing market in this country would collapse" - strange, I seem to remember hearing that argument put by vested interests about allowing children to work in the coal mines, or giving equal pay to women.... 3.5 million people in this country still living with mum and dad! Don't tell me that's not a vote winner! - The housing situation in this country has gone mad - and don't quote the old "Oh, it's all the immigrants" argument - there are still vast swathes of this country where you never see a black face or here a Polish accent ( yes, I know that's hard for you to believe, but I suspect you live in a large town?). It's a facile argument used to deflect attention from the basic fact that well run council properties make economic sense. And please use your degree to do a bit of research on how much it costs to build a small, solid council house, and how much you would have to rent it out for to pay for it with 5% interest over say 20 years with maintenance - I suspect the figure would be enormously below the average private rent charged. And may I also say, in conclusion, that the private rental market in this country is now booming - I wonder why? Not, I suspect, because all private landlords have suddenly had a religious conversion and want to assist the poor...

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Jill2014-01-22 10:52:27

Yeah and why have you put work into " "????..yes I do work and damn hard at that!!..what us it you do exactly that makes you more superior to almost everyone commenting on this post?? I said sound like a total knob!!!

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Tom D'Lobat2014-01-23 05:42:53

@ Margaret Brazear

With respect Margaret, please refer to page 22 and HCTB1 tear off on the link below. Specifically:

"We may need to confirm information with your
landlord before we can make a decision on your claim,
for example, the start date of your tenancy.
In these circumstances, we can contact your landlord
without your permission."

"The law requires that we inform your landlord of
certain decisions we make on your claim, for example,
when a decision is made to pay your benefit to your

I wish it were different.

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Tom D'Lobat2014-01-23 05:46:03

Granted it goes on to state "Under the Data Protection Act 1998 we need your
permission to discuss anything else.
If you give us permission, we would be able to tell
your landlord whether:
? you have claimed Housing Benefit, or
? we have made a decision on your claim, or
? we need more information to make a decision on
your claim, and what that information may be."

But having received a letter from the benefit team to confirm details mentioned in the previous section, you'd have to be a dim landlord not to realize the tenant was attempting to claim benefit.

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DotchPickingTycoon2014-01-28 18:56:14

Margaret Brazear

It is a legitimate housing concern regarding tenants born in the UK and the word 'racist' is a non word so in vocabulary terms its a non issue.

If anyone feels they are being wrongfully looked over they need to speak up.

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chloe2014-01-31 14:47:04

With some of what is said I do understand why landlords don't want to however....
Me and my partner have always been in receipt of housing benefit (dss) but sometimes I wish they could look at what you are doing and choose then whether to accept or not. When we first got it I was in fulltime college and at a hair salon 2 days a week and my other half was an apprentice mechanic. So with us we was never not doing anything. Luckily we have always been accepted, but its getting harder. Now 8 years down the line, my partners is a technican and mot tester on a good wage and I work part time but due to my contract being reduced to 12 hours instead of 16 we now get housing benefit again. Its not alot but its basically what i lost out on my contract. We want to move and people are already saying no to us. I have asked my current letting agent other wise the landlord will know we want to move but it really does make it hard. We were never allowed a council property since I fell pregnant at 16 (stupidly I did but do not regret this). We work so hard and would love to buy a property but all we can do is rent and landlords really arent helping people who are trying and providing for their family.
There aren't no council properties as they've all been taken and for people maybe who are private and lose a job and are then having to claim dss, should they really not be able to rent private all because the landlord does not want to accept dss. Also I'm pretty sure you can choose if the landlord gets the money, well its like that on the forms we have filled in.

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Chris2014-01-31 15:26:59

30% of people IN WORK receive Local Housing Allowance (Housing Benefit).

They are on minimum wage, the hours they get are irregular, very few per week and they probably hold 3-4 part time jobs so they don't have to sign on.
Unfortunately there hard work doesn't pay enough to actually live or rent a flat.

So are they lazy? NO.
Going to damage your property? NO.
Not likely as most on DSS are there for you landlords to JUDGE as UNFIT to be housed in your, often, dilapidated housing stock.

I hate judgemental people that hide there prejudices behind, in this case, "its my property I will rent it to whom I like". Hang on Im renting this I should be able to do what I want in it. Technically the Bank owns the house until you have paid off the entire mortgage. Ironically you're paying a mortgage you "RENT the right to live in it".

Also we really need to stop using our housing as cash machines.
The true value of any house is what I am, the customer, willing to rent it for or buy it for. Not what some jumped up estate agent says its worth on the local market.

We need a revolution in the housing sector, rent control and stop greedy people owning more than 2 houses.
So we can correct housing pricing.

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Grandma2014-01-31 22:54:20

Chloe @ 452 - You are precisely the sort of renter I have been banging on about - your husband works, and earns a reasonable wage, and you also work, but because of the high private rental charges you still have to claim housing benefit - and because of the housing stock shortage, now private landlords are refusing to accept you! Am I right in thinking that if you had a social housing property at a rational rent you would not NEED housing benefit? The system as it is set up at the moment funnels housing budget into the private market rather than spending it on social housing. It's crazy. One assumes the landlords make a profit from renting - why shouldn't councils? - Not as huge as landlords, but certainly not a loss. Chris@453 is right we need a revolution - who's going to lead it? I'm useless at social networking, but if someone can get the media all buzzy about holidays being more expensive during school hols, surely someone can get this one off the ground. Any volunteers? And maybe President Peters could start a counter one to see how many people agree with him that all DSS claimants are scum. The rich v. poor gap in this country is getting wider and wider.

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PresidentPeters2014-02-02 00:36:44

@Grandma, apologies for the delayed reply. You seem to have a lot of confidence in how efficient public sector organisations are, I disagree and think you are confusing your own jealousy at other people's wealth with a misguided belief a group of unmotivated 9 to 5ing civil servants are going to deliver a housing solution dor all those who can't (and again)won't pay for their own housing. You have a strong preference for social housing rather than renting from private landlords and your tone suggests everyone is entitled to social housing, could you tell me, what percentage of the population of the country you think it is acceptable (and exonomically viable) to have in social housing, rather than paying for their own housing?( that wasn't rhetorical, I'd like to know your answer). As for the social revolution you believe is immenant, check out the benefits debate on channel 5 this coming Monday night, I think you will see plenty of people providing arguments against your socialist "utopia". Oh and spoiler alert -the smartly dressed people on the show who actually have a hope of influencing government policy don't live in state subsidised housing (private or social)

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Grandma2014-02-02 11:11:26

President Peters@455 - First, I'd like to say I'm enjoying this discussion - and as far as I'm concerned, it IS a discussion, not an argument! I think some of the points I have made may have upset you, and I'm sorry for that. I'll reply to your post in points, if I may. 1)"You seem to have a lot of confidence in how efficient public sector organisations are" - boy, do I NOT! I think local councils, government offices and politicians are all equally dazed and confused as each other, not to mention the element of human frailty and venality that creeps in. If they weren't we wouldn't be in the state we are now. 2)"I think you are confusing your own jealousy at other people's wealth" No, sorry, actually I live in quite a large paid up thank you house with a very nice pension as I was born at the right time, so we'll forget about that little dig, shall we? 3)"with a misguided belief a group of unmotivated 9 to 5ing civil servants are going to deliver a housing solution dor all those who can't (and again)won't pay for their own housing" - Not at all! I agree with you! That's what I'm complaining about! - There seem to be NO motivation for CS's or any one else to formulate a rational solution. And your second point in that sentence If you CAN'T pay for your own housing, should you sleep on the streets? Is this Calcutta? And as for people who WON'T pay well, tough nuts to them, I don't think THEY should get SH. 3)" You have a strong preference for social housing rather than renting from private landlords and your tone suggests everyone is entitled to social housing," Well, I'm sorry that my tone suggested that, I don't think everyone should be entitled to social housing. I think there will, and should be, a strong case for private renting. If you want to live in a house in an area you particularly like, or somewhere that is convenient to your work, or a school you prefer, that's your choice. But for people who just need a secure and maintained home, and don't have well paid jobs, what's the problem? Why does it occasion such angst? If I am jealous at all, it is on behalf of those people who are stuck in the rental trap. 4)," could you tell me, what percentage of the population of the country you think it is acceptable (and exonomically viable) to have in social housing, rather than paying for their own housing?" I can't give you a figure, but here's quote from BBC news October 2013 "The number of UK workers earning below the so-called living wage has risen to 4.8 million, research suggests." I'd be happy to accept that figure for a start. However, because of the second part of your question, I don't think it's a valid response. "Economically Viable" - are the properties you own and rent "economically viable"? Why shouldn't social housing be? ( By the way, people in Social Housing DO pay for the places they live - it's called "rent..., not all of them are on benefits") Why shouldn't we house people, make a small profit and build more houses? I don't believe a social revolution is imminent, I wish it were, but whilst the establishment can keep us focussed on immigrants, scroungers, teenage hoodlums etc etc and whilst there are still plenty of Greggs open in the High Streets, we will continue to sit and scratch our fat backsides and not lift a hand to help those less happily situated than ourselves. I'll be interested to see the programme on Monday - I'll take notes! May I say in conclusion - I do NOT think private renting is wrong - I just don't think NOT having social housing is right

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Grandma2014-02-02 11:31:17

Sorry, PP at 455, had to leave it, JW's at the door.. final point, your final two sentences - the dictionary defines "utopia" as "a society possessing highly desirable qualities". Not a bad point to aim at, is it? You use the phrase in a dismissive sense, which I find sad - what are YOUR goals for society? And your very last sentence "the smartly dressed people on the show who actually have a hope of influencing government policy don't live in state subsidised housing (private or social) " I'm not sure what your point is - surely it would be better if the smartly dressed and privately housed people DIDN'T have so much influence, or at least shared it with the underdog. Oh, I know what you are going to say " Look at that rabble, covered in tattoos, can't even speak the Queen's English, totally uneducated, what do they know?" Well, they know how to live in bloody misery, and it's about time someone Armani suited and Hampstead housed put their Oxford educated brain towards resolving at least ONE of their problems.
Time to make another batch of cupcakes for the grandchildren...

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President Peter2014-02-02 11:45:17

Agreed, this is an interesting discussion and not an argument. Apologies for the "dig" if it doesn't apply to you, I do feel it is a likely affliction of some of the more leftward leaning people though, and not one they'd likely ever admit to. I am not ignoring your points above but don't have time to do them justice right now, there seems to be a break in this constant rain and it would be a shame to spend the afternoon on the computer when I could be strolling around "the heath". Lets pick this up after Monday night?

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Benji2014-02-02 19:14:06


"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.."

Fantastic quote! Love it.

I'm really enjoying reading your posts but can you please learn to write in paragraphs.

A lot of what you say is good common sense
- mixed in with a load of old bollocks.

Don't want to get involved in your discussion but felt I had to answer this;

"It's crazy. One assumes the landlords make a profit from renting - why shouldn't councils?"

Because, when it comes to profit, councils are absolute and complete, useless tossers who wouldn't know a profit if it bit them on the arse and had a very big label attached to it saying "PROFIT".

(Going back to watching from the sidelines)

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Grandma2014-02-03 09:42:42

Benji@459 - No paragraphs because I get involved. Bad practise, I know, but we're not really here to discuss my grammatical shortcomings!
I'll give you another quote -"If you can't get on in the business world, you're sure to get on in the Council" But who elects them, allows their decisions to pass, doesn't put forward or fight for any new or radical policies? H'mmm - could it be those who don't want to get involved, or simply want to watch from the sidelines? Or even worse, nowadays, simply comment on line ( that includes me, by the way)
Glad you're enjoying the posts - look! Three paragraphs!

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John2014-02-03 14:02:33

I have a portfolio of rented houses and my tenants receiving DSS housing benefit pay and care for their homes just as well as private ones. Like all walks of life, there are honest folk that respect the law and rules and there are those who don't. Millionaires or 20 year old on benefits, the same applies. I take time to meet tenants and get to know them. I avoid risk by doing this, always get paid on time and have few issues. If only our banking industry would do the same the UK would be a better place

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Sarah2014-02-03 18:33:14

To all the people that have some knowledge of the council telling people to "sit tight", please would you share it with me?

1. Does the council tell you to continue to pay your rent?
2. Does an eviction lead to problems in future when renting places?
3. Does the council warn you of any future consequences of being evicted?

many thanks :0)

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chloe2014-02-04 19:11:39

@Grandma to your reply to me. Yes most definatly, If I was in social housing or even intermediate rent I would not need housing benefit.

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kountakinte2014-02-12 19:09:40

At a moment I thought you spoke for me!

I currently try to move out my 1bedroom flat, which I live in with my wife, and newborn. Unfortunat, I work, but get paid only 980(full time), I cannot afford to pay even a rent...sometimes, I think who are these landlords renting to??? In every corner there is a shop, and most of them get paid 7£ average! How can these tenants rent a flat on their own???
I decided to go in UNI, and perhaps after my studies I could afford to rent a place without HB.
Bam, I reduced to 20h, earn 600£+- , I am overcrowded in my flat, and keep on everyday looking for a bigger place,. But it seems that being in relative poverty in the 21century, means that break the rules, or break your neck.
I am use to middle class lifestyle when I was younger, being still young (in my twenties) I try to make the best out of it but it seems that, the people, are not investing on me!
Yes I choosed to have a newborn while I was on HB, is it wrong? NO
I believe that as a society, we should help each other, that my cild benefit, is like an investment. That my Uni is a oppurtunity, but my work is exploiting me, I keep on doing the same thing, like a machine, and have to obey, speak for the company, dress for them,making overtime for them, am I getting reawarded for it? NO.
After all I have to do it, because I force myself to think that I serv the customer. But in reality I serv a bunch of capitalist wanting to exploit chinese/bangladeshi employees, producing something for 1£ and selling in the UK for 50£.
And there comes te new financial year!
Oh we had a profit of 12%
Next year we going to double it!
Exploit more the workers, making them work more, reducing their mobility, and employ less people.
And then we replace them with machines! And suck them all!

We became so greedy that we just look at our family, and whoever asks for help we give them 1£....1£!!!

Now if we talk about equality, I believe its fucked.
The world is so messed up, globalization, has had many bad impact around the world, that it forces people to believe UK will offer better lifestyle.
Yes there where times where working as a clerk, or in a industry was reawarding.
While some people are earning 800times the salary of on employee, doing less, going in meetings, they do not reaward the one who actualy made the product!
But they treat them like a scum!

What we must change is the ideology!
And listen to each other without trying to argument the hole time, but just listen!
UK has a huge national debt, because of who?
Immigrants? No,they wouldnt come if other nation exploit their country!
I let you people answer this!

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kountakinte2014-02-12 19:25:28

I just wanted to add, conercing the man who wrote this post!

What would he do, if he came from a lower class background? would he speak the same? How could he rent a place earning less then 800£ and build a family.
No wonder why london has so many single persons.
It seems that I have to sacrifice one or the other.

Yes there are people abusing it, but we go around a circle there! Working people also abuse of some proprieties. Saying that people on benefit dont take care of the flat, is missleading. People with wrong values, and moral are the one we should rent to.

But who can we know who is bad, wo is good?
Someone working and getting more then 2k, dressing with expensive clotes is he a good person?
And on the other side being poor, but honest, and having better moral, someone modest earning 400-900£, is regarded as a "risk".
We give more value to money, then a person itself, no wonder why we see so many people doing everything for money...
I think its not only the landlords fault , but the society is messed up(i dont generalize)

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Dawn Harris2014-02-13 11:27:01

My son was an electrician, hardworking and trustworthy. His girlfriend developed mental health issues and the relationship broke down. social services gave him custody of the two children aged 2 and 10 months. he is now living in my spare room with the two children and hopes to go back to work when they are in nursery. He is having a great deal of trouble getting anyone to rent to him because he is on DSS. He is stable and has a guarantor and deposit and month up front. Income support is looked on by him as a short term safety net whilst he sorts out a property and is a great shame that others cannot see this

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Bowenistaa2014-02-15 21:50:32

Well, gotta say I agree with the blogger. I am a 34 year old woman with no children, and will not have nay until I am 100% sure I have to money to provide for them. Jill said that she can have as many kids as she please....and I agree, if you can pay for them. Don't hate on the refugees and asylum seekers, England is now paying back for all the slavery and imperial era when then rinsed clean Africa, India, China etc. The fact of the matter there are losers from all walks of life, and of all nationalities. If you had common sense you would realise that a real parent gets their life in order before reproducing. There are a lot of lazy people in this country, and if your own people will not work then the foreigners will pip them to the post. The problem today is that everyone believes a 'duty of care' is owed to them, which is subtext for 'everything should be free and easy to gain'. Well wake up. If you want a house, your have to WORK for it. If you want a car you have to SAVE for it. If you want a good job you have to APPLY and WORK YOUR WAY UP into a good job. There is no use sitting there and blaming immigrants, as they are too busy working, saving and acting as a community to enhance their wealth. Yes there are some scrounger foreigners, but they are no worse that the home-bred ones.

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Kevin Crouch2014-02-19 11:23:50

You are being a pompous prick, because it's not true at all. I'm a full time degree student and i leave education this year with no where to go back to. I had to leave a council property i had before to come a study. I tried home swap and various other methods to move with ease trying to keep my council property save but in the end i had to find student accommodation. As i will no longer be a student my landlord is kicking me out and as it's me and my partner who are living here its very difficult for us to find somewhere new. She will be continuing education and does not have work at the moment cause it's difficult finding work. I will be continuing in my job at a coop till i can find something better and provide me with a larger income as at the moment i will not have enough to pay full rent so i will need DSS. Government has chosen to fill the country and social housing is short, the rules are so stupid how is anyone ever to find accommodation. People like myself that are trying to do the right things in life and trying to do something with their lives are getting effected by money wasters, stuck up pompous landlords and faulty unreliable legislations that are not working in the favour of people who really need help once in a while. Councils are not to blame for over population the government is, and i think it was about David Cameron or some other fellow were to start helping out the people of this country for a change. We are not all doing the right things in life and others have let us down by being lazy and living up to that shady background you so elegantly describe.

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ann turrell2014-02-19 13:19:30

Bowenistaa @467: My God! Margaret! -I thought you were dead! - didn't I see your funeral on television last year? How IS the afterlife? Is Dennis still sloshing through the gin? Still trotting out the specious arguments, I see... Let us work on your assertions - Ok, you save up ALL the money you are going to need to look after your children till they finish university, and put it in a nice safe bank account. OK, that takes you well past the menopause, but never mind, you've a nice safe job and can afford a mortgage. Oh shit, you slipped on a banana skin and now have a medical problem that prevents you from working. Never mind, you've got accident insurance but now you have to make a decision - use it on the mortgage or eat? H'mm perhaps a meal might be nice... Oh-oh, no house, not working, what to do, ah-ha! Nice man at the DHSS will give you benefit! BUT - nasty man at the letting agency won't give you a home. Even if the council do promise to pay direct, because you can't even get in through his door.
Well, perhaps my arguments are as specious as yours, but if you WILL make easy, unthought out statements, you must expect to get the same in reply.
Some of what you say is right - don't hate the immigrants and asylum seekers - it's just a diversionary tactic to draw attention away from the real source of the problem. "If you want a house you have to WORK for it" - fifty years ago there were jobs for everybody - and that included the dimbo's who couldn't spell, or add two and two, or pick their noses without using both hands. Have you been for a job interview lately? Did they say " Have you got two hands? Have you got a pulse? - Start Monday" No, it's now " What's your experience? What's your medical history? How many exams have you got? Have you transport? Can you drive? etc." Do you ever wonder why you never see a village idiot nowadays? They all died of starvation. There used to be a place in our society FOR village idiots. But if you can't cut it nowadays, it's goodnight Vienna. " Today everyone believes a duty of care is owed to them" - YES! They're RIGHT! We DO owe a duty of care to those who are worse off, worse housed, worse fed or worse cared for than us! It's called bloody HUMANITY! And we discard it at our own peril. J.F. Kennedy may have been a shit in many ways, but he did get one thing right -" Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country" - and that includes your fellow country men. I'm not suggesting that you let your back bedroom at reduced rates to half a dozen Lithuanians, I'm saying you should care enough about the disadvantaged to ask WHAT plans your local council, and the government, have to help them get out of the pit and into some sunshine. It doesn't COST anything, you just have to CARE a bit.

Kevin @468
Alright, Kevin, you're a student and much younger than me and presumably know how to use all this social networking stuff - get on and do it! Start a virus or whatever they're called on youtube! Teach your cat to play the banjo and put a sign round it's neck saying "MORE SOCIAL HOUSING!" Don't just moan to your mates at the pub! DO SOMETHING!

Kevin @468

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Jill2014-02-19 13:26:13

And I can pay for them Bowenistaa!!!!

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PresidentPeters2014-02-20 21:09:55

Bowenistaa- nice to hear someone talk some sense !

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Jill2014-03-12 13:17:48

Brilliant Anne Turrell!!! Amazing ideas Bowenistaa but come on!! Laughing away here! Get a life love!!

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Hardworking mother2014-03-29 09:56:28

I work as a supply teacher. I have a child...I do not get paid for holidays or for absence due to illness, I do not have a contract. I earn good money..I am honest and hardworking. I have an excellent credit rating. I need the safety net of Dss in case I cannot cover my rent due to unforeseen circumstances. Landlords who accept me are getting an excellent tenant....WHAT IS THE PROBLEM!!! Each case needs to be judged by its own merit.

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Problem Solver2014-03-30 22:10:03


Here are a few-

You don't get paid for holidays.
You don't get paid for absence due to sickness.
You don't have a contract.
You need the safety net of Dss.
You haven't put any money aside even though you are now earning good money.
You cannot cover your rent if (when) there are unforeseen circumstances.

And they are just the things you have told us about.

Problem solved!

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MasterC2014-04-01 11:47:34

Firstly I must say, this is a fantastically intriguing and dare I say it, entertaining thread. I have been utterly engrossed in the responses and polar opposite views of the participants - any opinion, be it for or against an argument is still an opinion and I thank everyone for contributing to this conversation.

I will attempt to articulate my own opinion, which I will admit, is a little muddled as I think the scenario and situations being analysed here are so varying and cover such a vast landscape, it is impossible to find a ‘one size fits all’ solution to such a complicated issue.

I am a working home owner (Who originally came from a council estate in a dodgy area of South London). I am currently helping a childhood friend of mine to try and get himself a rented property through the DSS. (This is how I stumbled upon this thread). He is struggling to get himself a place to live and has been in and out of work for most of his life. However, he has an absolute heart of gold and would help anyone at the drop of a hat. He is a fantastic father to the 3 Children he has, all who live with their mother. Although not financially stable, he spends time with his children, encourages and nurtures them, takes them to church and is an extremely proud father. He does more than a lot of Fathers do, albeit he is pretty much broke. So, 35 year old man, in and out of work, no real references or guarantor available. He is very unlikely to be able to get a privately rented house. Does this mean he does not deserve one? Absolutely not. Who on this planet has the right to judge a good Human being in that way? Objectively speaking, If you didn’t know the man, you surely would turn him down on his background situation. BUT If you got to know him, you would fall in love with his character, sense of humour and infectious laugh and you would give him a chance, no doubt, as he deserves it.

He comes from a poor area and has not had many opportunities in life as a result. Yes, he had the same schooling etc. as others, but sometimes the area and environment a child is brought up in can drastically effect their outlook and aspirations in life. Does he have any assets at all – No. Is he a Jeremy Kyle candidate, Absolutely not.
I am trying, in a roundabout way, to explain that unfortunately nothing is as simple as it seems and it is such a shame that people and scenarios’ cannot be judged on their individual merit. Of course I understand that this is impossible because of the sheer quantity and volume of issues and people who are being churned through the system. In reality, the Government(s) lost control of these and many other issues a long time ago, and fearfully I don’t believe they will ever really be able to fix the deep routed issues in our society - this being one of them. In summary, being judgemental and creating generalist views on society isn’t the way forward. Yes there are members of our society that are abhorrent and I would certainly never even want them within a mile of an property I own, but tarring the entire population of people in misfortunate circumstances with the same brush is ridiculous and yet I am able to forgive those that do, because unfortunately some (Jez Kyle crew) spoil it for everyone else. I also totally understand that having a rental property is a business and an investment – no one wants a bad investment. It’s just a shame that the situation has got to this stage where people are struggling and fighting to try and better their lives (Tenants) but having to be rejected by those that have already improved theirs (Landlords). It’s a systematic problem with our society, not the individuals who are rejecting DSS tenants!

I wish anyone reading this or who has contributed to this thread, or who are just in a similar situation, lots of good luck and positive vibes. Keep on trucking and stay positive and happy. Positivity breeds positivity, visualise your goals and maintain faith.

At the risk of 'taking sides', my fave contributor has been Grandma. No nonsense, common sense and contributed from the heart. I salute you Grandma :-)

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Benji2014-04-01 13:12:26


If you are a working homeowner, why don't you act as a guarantor for your DSS friend?

If you aren't willing to take the risk, why do you think a landlord would?

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MasterC2014-04-01 13:31:56

@Benji - If you would kindly read my post again and point out to me exactly where I mentioned that I think a Landlord should take unnecessary risk, I'll gladly answer your question.

You'll find, in fact I almost state the exact opposite:

"It’s a systematic problem with our society, not the individuals who are rejecting DSS tenants!"

Perhaps I didnt articulate my point well enough (Although I did) that this is a much deeper routed social issue than it seems on the surface.

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Benji2014-04-01 16:31:28

"He is very unlikely to be able to get a privately rented house. Does this mean he does not deserve one? Absolutely not...
If you got to know him, you would fall in love with his character, sense of humour and infectious laugh and you would give him a chance, no doubt, as he deserves it."

You know him, a private landlord doesn't. I doubt the things you mention would be sufficient to persuade many landlords to give him a chance but if you think he deserves it, then take the risk yourself and act as a guarantor.

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PresidentPeters2014-04-01 19:45:25

I think you walked right into that one MasterC, Benji has a valid point. How can you say your friend deserves the trust of a stranger (landlord) when his friend (who has such wonderful things to say about him) won't take the risk of him defaulting on rent/ damaging the property. It must be really comforting to have a happy go lucky,liberal, lefty attitude, the thing is all those warm fuzzy sentiments write a lot of cheques that you expect someone else to cash, whether its an individual landlord or tax payers at large.

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Grandma2014-04-01 22:47:53

It's actually not a complicated subject at all, though you could get just as bemused by the warm fuzzy left wing sentiment as by the right wing diatribes. The basic question still remains - " If private landlords can make money from property, why can't councils?" And I re-iterate, make council housing available to EVERYONE who wants it, on pro rata basis ( low rent for the low paid, high rent for the high, doh!). I have that choice at the moment - I own my house, and could sell it and buy an ex council. I don't WANT to do that, because I live in a huge house with an even bigger garden. Not everyone would WANT to live in council housing, they would choose to rent privately, or buy, but for those who did, or must, we should still have the option. Same as with the Medical services - BUPA or NHS? President P. - is that me being soft and fuzzy? Or am I just being practical? At the moment a proportion of my hard earned ( and believe me, it WAS hard earned!) tax money is going to private landlords at exorbitant rates. And you have to charge exorbitant rents because the cost of housing is going up. And the cost of housing is going up because people are desperate to be housed. And people are desperate for housing because no houses are being built. And no houses are being built because people can't afford to buy them. And people can't afford to buy them because they are paying exorbitant rents... welcome to the merry go round. What is really sad is that the situation hasn't changed in sixty years, in fact if anything it's worse. Just after the war my parents got their council flat. I can remember ( I was only four) how my mum sat in the sitting room and cried, she was so happy. There were sixty flats in the new block and I can't remember any problems with them as I was growing up. Families with ten children in three bedrooms, yes. Kids with nits, yes. Even a bloke who played the piano loud when he'd rowed with his wife. But the actual properties were very well kept. And we were SAFE - our homes were secure as long as we complied with the contract ( no washing on the balcony, no mad dogs, love (or at least try to) your neighbour)- that was part of the councils duties - to look after the local populace - not squirm out of everything it possibly could, and pay someone else ( with our money!) to do it. That's why we had a "society" And that's what we haven't got now. I wish someone would tell me what the rationale is behind the councils decision NOT to provide Council housing... By the way, the flats I grew up in are now selling for £350k a pop - nice work for someone... also, did you know Bracknell District Council sold the last 5,000 of it's council houses a couple of years ago to a housing association? They were going on the private market for approx. 200k apiece. The council sold them for £5k EACH - not offered at that price to the tenants, of course... and you wonder why us fuzzy left wingers foam at the mouth....

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Grandma2014-04-01 23:00:31

MasterC - thanks for the compliment - I hope I don't go down in your estimation when I say I agree with PresidentP - you can't ask anyone to do what you wouldn't do yourself. Put your money where your mouth is.

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MasterC2014-04-02 10:21:34

Guys, I'm not asking anyone to do anything I wouldn't do. Bigger picture - My friend deserves a chance to rent privately. Thats it. Nowhere in my post does it mention that LandLord's should change their attutudes though. I'm simply agreeing with various other posts on this forum saying its extremely unfortunate that this is the situation people are facing.

PresidentP - I expect no one to 'cash any cheques', please dont jump to incorrect assumptions and I have certainly paid MORE than my fair share of tax in my life. Thank you also for the compliment; It is very comforting to have a very happy go lucky,liberal attutude. To even remotely contemplate that to live ones life in a happy go lucky fashion is somwhow a negative, is a little saddening.


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