Be Careful Of Property Associations

Someone posted this in my forum and I found it rather interesting, so I thought I would write about it since there’s a lesson to be learned.

I became a member of the Property Association in June 05 at a cost of £1600 plus VAT. The Property Association make deals with house builders and sell the off plan flat/houses to their members. They do various deals around the country and overseas. Their usual trick is to tell their members via very convincing emails about various developments, and leading people to believe that there is an instant equity. I was foolish enough to believe them and purchased an off plan 2 bedroom flat near Newcastle, in June 05, to be completed in July 06. There was 12 flats for sale and all were bought by members.

The initial info from them was also mentioning that a similar flat had sold in the area for £134,000, so I thought we were getting a very good deal with our purchase! Because there was no Post Codes I could not research anything on the Internet. We were also told that the flat was 4 miles from Newcastle and in a regeneration area.

When I made my 1st trip there shortly before completion, I had a shock. The flat was nearly 8 miles from Newcastle, not 4, and in a dump and depressing area.

Our flat has now been on the market since completion, and is now on the market for less than the purchase price!!! Furthermore, in order to purchase through the Property Association, there is also a ‘finders’ fee of 2%. All in all, we paid nearly £5000.00 in fees to purchase a flat that is not worth today the price we paid 2 years ago!

**SOME CONTENT REMOVED**

(If there are any TPA Members who have purchased a property through TPA, I would be glad to hear their views)”

My sympathy goes out to Dan, the guy who wrote that. But there’s plenty to be learned from this unlucky experience.

I’ve noticed a lot of those property association companies merge from under the woodworks over the years and I can safely say that they’ve never appealed to me. Not because I thought they were a dodgy outfit (although I do now), but more because I wanted to have a more in-depth involvement with property myself, as opposed to getting someone else to do the work for me for a shit load of money. What these property association companies basically do is approach developers, and strike up an agreement. They usually say, “we’ll sell 20 apartments for you, if you give us a discount on each flat”.

If you plan on going down the route of using a property association, just be careful, especially with off-plan proposals, as you never know what you might end up with. And don’t be fooled by the “instant equity” bullshit; equity can NEVER be guaranteed. If they’re so positive of instant positive equity guarantee, tell them to put it in the contract. I’d like to hear their responses to that…The fact is, you can’t actually value a property accurately until it’s been built.

Like this post? Then maybe you should sign up to my FREE newsletter so you receive more like it!

61 Comments- Join The Conversation...

Showing 11 - 61 comments (out of 61)
Guest Avatar
john palmer 10th March, 2009 @ 11:51

*** COMMENT REMOVED ***

11
Guest Avatar
Phil 10th March, 2009 @ 19:31

John

What a great resource the web is ! they are one and the same, and they also have another web presence:

www.thepropertysyndicate.com/

This offers
MAXIMUM GAIN MINIMUM RISK !!
UP TO 50% RETURN PER ANNUM !!

Last person I heard of offering this sort of return on investment was Bernard Madoff in The USA, and we all know where he is heading, and how safe your money would have been.

As the Financial Services Authority warns, if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.

A little like pyramid or Ponzi schemes.

There seems to be a pattern emerging here.

No further comment from Mr Sawyer about "slander" or defamation of character ?

I actually think that "The Property Syndicate" should be registered with the FSA, and that it is illegal to operate a "collective investment scheme" in the UK without doing so.

Mr Sawyer quotes some very legal sounding stuff about "qualified investors", which is of no relevance to the UK regulations, and doesn't exclude them in any way from their obligation to be registered.

Caution to Mr Sawyer, I do have some considerable expertise in this area. But bring on the debate, I'm enjoying it.

He was also suggesting recently at his TPA site that people should take out second and even third charges against their homes to invest in BTL.

Maybe not the best advice I have ever seen.

Looking at his main customers at Pushinternet, they seem to be a firm of debt councillors, Dawson White, Chiltern Debt Management etc (all owned by one company) based in the same building in Sale, Manchester as TPA are.

It looks like TPA could be a great source of customers for them !!

Phil

12
Guest Avatar
Oliver 10th March, 2009 @ 20:21

That’s a bit like saying don’t deal with Richard Branson because Virgin has more than one business.

Is this guy a crook that’s the question? I can’t see why he is. He’s too upfront and the web company seem very good at what they do.

I agree with the last post about the timing of the complaints because a lot of wishful thinkers became amateur landlords in those years.

I mean fancy buying a property without going to look at the area first??? That’s really dumb. People should do their own research before buying anything.

The rest is ancient history posted by somebody with an obvious gripe. Sorry mate but you don’t do yourself any favours by reprinting other peoples complaints when you don’t have one yourself. Quite sad really.

13
Guest Avatar
john palmer 11th March, 2009 @ 09:06

i agree with some of olivers points. i dont agree with using richard branson as a comparison tho, theres a big diffrence, virgin is a massive company!!! i was merely making a reference to a group of about 8 people with two diffrent job titles each, my point wasnt to slag them off, it was just to highlight the fact that they couldnt possibly give 100% to their property business if they have an internet company aswell, however, if their were 20 people, 10 on property for example and 10 on the internet business, then i wouldnt have even mentioned it! i dont think richard branson pilots clock off and then go and do a shift in one of his record shops!!(sorry if i sounded cynincal oliver, didnt mean to, and i hope ive made my point clearer.
john

14
Guest Avatar
Phil 11th March, 2009 @ 11:50

Oliver asked an important question.

Is this guy a crook ?

That none of us know for certain, and I don't have a gripe with him or the company personally.

One thing is clear though, he doesn't tell the truth, and that reflects very badly on him and his company.

I quote from Mr Sawyer's post.

"and although I didn’t ask to be included, I’m even in the 2009 edition of Who’s Who"

I am sat in front of the current edition of Who's Who 2009 161st annual edition "the recognised source book of information on people of interest in all fields"

Mark Sawyer does not appear in it !!

If he would lie about something so fundamental, I think we can all assume that he would lie about almost anything.

A wide berth and barge pole come to mind.

It is blogging sites like this that find out the truth about companies and their owners, and make it easier for people to avoid the painful results of doing business with them.

Keep up the good work.

Phil

15
Guest Avatar
Claire Smith 11th March, 2009 @ 12:33

I think it's probably you Phil that's telling lies and I believe you do personally have a gripe, otherwise why would you be writing so much about the subject. You're actually becoming boring do you know that! I've just done a quick who's who search on google - go to www.whoswho.co.uk and search on their database and you'll find Mark Sawyer there!

16
Guest Avatar
Phil 11th March, 2009 @ 14:10

I suggest you go and look up your name in the actual publication "Who's who"

http://www.ukwhoswho.com/search/quick?quicksearch=Mark+Sawyer

published by Oxford University Press

You know the one, unless you are lacking a decent education. It contains the names of the great and good.

If you are going to quote your inclusion in a publication, please use the publications real name, which would be one of the following:

Who's who Britain’s Business Elite
Who's who Fastest Growing Companies
Who's who Britain's Youngest Directors
Who's who Britain’s Business Elite –
Who's who Young Business Leaders 2009

Not "Who's who"

That title belongs to the Oxford University Press and the publishers A & C Black.

17
Guest Avatar
Phil 11th March, 2009 @ 14:54

Who's Who of Britain's Business Elite: Business Leaders of the Millennium 2009 PUBLICATION DUE MARCH 2009

So you are included in a publication that isn't even published yet ?

Perhaps you can quote to us all what your entry actually says ?

Phil

18
Guest Avatar
Mark Sawyer 11th March, 2009 @ 18:11

My thanks to John, Clair and Oliver for pointing out the obvious.

I really should not have to make this post, but just in case anyone really gives a damn, here goes...

In answer to the last post, here is what Phil does not want to see:

http://www.thepropertyassociation.com/documents/WhosWho.pdf

If anyone would like to visit our office, you can see the original. Why don't you pop in Phil? We will even make you a cup of tea while you read it.

Contrary to the above slander, I do not lie and I have nothing to hide.

I have no criminal record and I have never been tried for a crime...ever.

I pay my taxes and I don't hide behind false identities, aliases or fake email addresses, like some I could mention.

Furthermore, contrary to speculation on this page, my company has never had a single court judgement in its six year history. Not on...ever. By all means check that out before ‘Phil’ (or your resident webmaster) makes one up.

Take three and a half reams of paper and stand them one on top of the other. That’s how many clients TPA has. 1,750 customers around the world. Do I know them personally? Of course not. Would you expect me to personally handle every problem? Of course not. Does any business have 100% satisfaction from its customers? Of course not.

I’m certainly not perfect and I often make mistakes, but I don’t wear my underpants over my trousers and I simply cannot solve every problem that comes up.

I care for my staff, my business colleagues and (believe it or not) our customers. I’ve even been on holiday with some of them.

I am passionate about life and I work very hard. I seek opportunity during hard times and I’m prepared to diversify if needed. I love my wife and children and I enjoy cooking.

Is there anything else anyone wants to know?

There is a lot I would like to say about the complaints on this page and there is much I would like to say about the archive material that has been dredged up about me. There are two sides to every story, but right now I don't really care what anyone thinks.

Perhaps the ever fair Phil will be pleased to know that I have recently lost my beautiful 29 year old daughter in a tragic accident. Therefore, I have far more important things to agonise about than his pathetic attack on my integrity. Or perhaps he also needs to see a scan of her death certificate just in case I'm 'lying' for heaven's sake.

Either way its water off a duck’s back. He's made his mind up, so let him get on with it.

Anyway, the mysterious 'Phil' is slowly revealing his true motives and making a fool of himself in the process. He now splits hairs in an attempt to cover up his outright defamation of character. He cares nothing about fact and thrives only on speculation, rumour and gossip, so let him carry on at his own peril. His business vigilante mentality will eventually get the better of him.

If anyone reading this page before it disappears really cares enough to discuss any of the stuff raised by this unfortunate man, then please contact me personally on 0161 926 0670. I will be happy to oblige.

This is all I have to say on the matter.

Mark Sawyer

19
Guest Avatar
Phil 11th March, 2009 @ 18:17

Quote from "The Who’s Who of Britain’s Business Leaders of the Millennium 2009"

includes individuals who direct and manage a wide variety of successful businesses in the UK, formed since 1st January 2000. Businesses have been selected on a range of criteria which, we believe, set them apart from their contemporaries.

Our objective is to highlight those individuals who have set up a company in the new millennium that has achieved a strong net worth and shown growth over the last three years.

A minimum bench mark has been set at £100,000 net worth at the last financial year end. Growth has been defined as an increase in net worth over the last three years. 1,828,310 companies have been incorporated between the 1/1/00 and the 31/3/06.111,909 of these companies have a net worth of £100,000 or more as detailed by their latest set of audited accounts.

15,158 of these companies were deleted from our master list due to their accounts not being filed on time with Companies House. This reduced our master list to 96,751 companies.

After removing the companies which have a reduction in shareholders funds and where net worth has decreased over the last 3 years, we have a final list of 54,509 qualifying Companies.
DUE FOR PUBLICATION – MARCH 2009

end quote

So they trawled companies house records and have come up with 54,509 companies and all the listed directors.

What a landmark achievement to be included in this publication !

Sir Richard Branson isn't even listed in it ! but perhaps that's due to the fact that he appears in the real "Who's who"

Phil

20
Guest Avatar
Oliver 11th March, 2009 @ 21:31

Sorry, but you are just an idiot with an axe to grind. What the hell has he done to upset you?

21
Guest Avatar
MuggedUP 11th March, 2009 @ 22:15

Oh dear Phil looks like you got proper mugged up there fella. Let us know if you take Mark up on the offer and have a cupper and a browse of 'that' book, in his office.
I'd
..
..
..
wait for it
..
..
..
..
..
You'll love this one
..
..
..
..
..
..
put my HOUSE on it that you don't take him up on the offer!

Ho Ho Ho

22
Guest Avatar
john palmer 11th March, 2009 @ 22:55

everytime someone adds to this thread i get an email, and i must admit, it all seems to be getting out of hand, im sorry if ive added to this, i was just researching property investment and came accross what "seemed" to be some advice/debate on what not to do when buying property, and i was merely adding my two pence worth, but now its turned a bit nasty. i hope you people can sort out your diffrences (im assuming you know each other).
regards
john (gracefully bowing out of this debate).

23
Guest Avatar
Phil 17th July, 2009 @ 16:01

The Property Association have been heavily involved in the promotion of an investment scheme called 'Currency Plan' run by Upton & Co which has been closed down by the FSA.

Many investors look likely to lose thousands of pounds, some 100's of thousands.

The scheme was promoted by The Property Association as being FSA regulated, it wasn't.

The Property Association made huge amounts on introduction fees selling this scheme.

24
Guest Avatar
Phil 17th July, 2009 @ 16:18

More info here:

http://www.singingpig.co.uk/forums/4/816464/ShowThread.aspx

25
Guest Avatar
anonymous 18th July, 2009 @ 21:46

You can search for the directors of the Property Association at Companies House, The Property Association is the trading name of Eurproperty Ltd. Mr Mark Sawyer of the Property Association has a long history of unhappy clients, see The Blagger.com and http://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/be-careful-of-property-associations/#comment-57715

Not sure, but shouldn't The Property Association have been FSA registered themselves to be recommending investment products ? I think you should pursue that angle with the FSA

26
Guest Avatar
anonymous 18th July, 2009 @ 21:55

My apologies for the previous post, I was meant to include the fact that I received the link to this site from another site dedicated to people who have been scammed recently. The comments above were actually someone else’s and not mine.

I do not wish to reveal my name as I am currently starting legal action against the company in question. (That will be your 1st then Mr Sawyer!!) I am very unhappy with the LIES that I HAVE been told by people working for this company, especially by Mr Sawyer's son.

This blog seems to have got out of hand. I do not wish to comment on the arguments between some of you, but rather I would like to refer to the original post.

I have had quite a lot of dealings with the Property Association over the last year. I invested a lot of hard earnt money and subsequently lost huge amounts. It's funny, but Mr Sawyer and Co aren't so quick to invite ME round for coffee when I try (in vain) to contact them. They only send the usual emails distancing themselves from any responsibility regarding my complaints.

I would also like to add that whilst it is very sad for anyone to lose any family member in any circumstances, the fact you lost a family member Mr Sawyer won't change the fact that you are a devious, underhanded cheat. No amount of sob stories will wash for those that have been ripped off by your company Mr Sawyer. I also think it is rather bad taste to use this as a way of gaining advantage or personal credibility.

May your lost family member rest in peace. See you in court Mr Sawyer.

27
Guest Avatar
Oliver 24th July, 2009 @ 20:13

Refer to the death of a daughter as a sob story is very dangerous. I don't support this man if he is a cheat but it will be found out in the proper way, not by you being a saddo. You are obviously a coward hiding behind a false identity. I hope other people pick up on this and complain to Google as i intend to because the links above do not work, they just try to get you to sign up for another web site. Niced try whoever you are.

Be carful that your post doesn't backfire in court. If I was this bloke I would be building my own case out of what you have just said.

28
Guest Avatar
Phil 27th July, 2009 @ 09:16

The forum was still available until very recently, see reprint below.

Singing Pig - Promised returns of 4-6% per month (50% per annum or ...
8 posts - 6 authors - Last post: 28 Mar
Has anybody dealt with Upton and Co, accountants in West Yorkshire, or been introduced to their "risk free" or "low risk" currency plan? ...
www.singingpig.co.uk/forums/thread/708348.aspx

30 Jan 2009, 8:32 PM 708348
Gareth Thomas

Joined on 22 Dec 2004
London
Posts 48
Promised returns of 4-6% per month (50% per annum or 80% compounded) !!!!
Has anybody dealt with Upton and Co, accountants in West Yorkshire, or been introduced to their "risk free" or "low risk" currency plan?

Please post your experiences here. A firm called Property Investment Deals has sent me some info and I'm not sure if this is a scam or not.

Thanks.

Changing Fortunes Property Investment Finance
Closed bridging finance to property investors.
Mob : 07971 874 147
Mail: gareth@changingfortunes.co.uk
Report abuse

04 Feb 2009, 2:42 PM 711245 in reply to 708348
Leon De Jager

Joined on 04 Feb 2009
Posts 4
Re: Promised returns of 4-6% per month (50% per annum or 80% compounded) !!!!
I have been offered the same deal by the Peter Parfait news letter and property investment tips. Aparently the funds are regulated by the FSA as well!

I would also be interested in any experience with this deal. Anyone?

Report abuse
23 Mar 2009, 8:56 PM 744143 in reply to 708348
Kerry Johnston

Joined on 23 Mar 2009
Posts 4
Re: Promised returns of 4-6% per month (50% per annum or 80% compounded) !!!!
I invested £1000 in the currency plan in January 09, I had an e-mail last week saying that all the funds had been frozen by the FSA and will be dispersed by them when as and when they see fit

Report abuse
23 Mar 2009, 9:45 PM 744173 in reply to 744143
Gareth Thomas

Joined on 22 Dec 2004
London
Posts 48
Re: Promised returns of 4-6% per month (50% per annum or 80% compounded) !!!!
Hi Kerry,

I hope that means you've not lost your funds. Why has the FSA got involved in this investment scheme?

Changing Fortunes Property Investment Finance
Closed bridging finance to property investors.
Mob : 07971 874 147
Mail: gareth@changingfortunes.co.uk
Report abuse
24 Mar 2009, 7:54 AM 744416 in reply to 744173
Kerry Johnston

Joined on 23 Mar 2009
Posts 4
Re: Promised returns of 4-6% per month (50% per annum or 80% compounded) !!!!
So do I . We have no idea why the FSA is involved (as the paperwork said it was approved by FSA) my notification came from my introducer Austen Sawyer with no explanation. I will wait a few weeks and then may contact the FSA and see what is going on.
Report abuse
24 Mar 2009, 11:08 AM 744524 in reply to 744416
Bill McCallum

Joined on 11 Feb 2008
Dorset (formely Middlesbrough)
Posts 269
Re: Promised returns of 4-6% per month (50% per annum or 80% compounded) !!!!
A quick Search of the FSA web site does not show anything to do with Upton & Co, usually they issue warnings about problems companies or scams.

for example

Warning – The Financial Associate (TFA) Limited

Customers who took out a mortgage, or are in the process or taking out a mortgage, through The Financial Associate (TFA) Limited (based in Sidcup) should check that the mortgage advance is for the amount that they applied for in their original mortgage application.
(11/03/2009)

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/register/home.do

Bill McCallum

mccallum_bill at hotmail.com
Report abuse
27 Mar 2009, 3:42 PM 747270 in reply to 744524
Investor One

Joined on 22 Mar 2009
Posts 4
Re: Promised returns of 4-6% per month (50% per annum or 80% compounded) !!!!
Awaiting further information

Report abuse
28 Mar 2009, 4:27 AM 747610 in reply to 747270
Juu pursmason

Joined on 28 Mar 2009
Kensington
Posts 16
Re: Promised returns of 4-6% per month (50% per annum or 80% compounded) !!!!
the FSA needs to really crack down on these companies and take action!

Regards

J

Report abuse

29
Guest Avatar
Phil 28th July, 2009 @ 08:40

More from the missing Singing Pig Forum:

Re: Promised returns of 4-6% per month (50% per annum or 80% compounded) !!!!
breen:
I have also been scamed by this. I invested on the recommendation of Austen Sawyer of the Property Association. I am absoultly raging with both Mr Sawyer and Mr Upton and feel that if 100% of funds are not returened we should collectively go for action against both.

Has anyone heard from Mr Sawyer?

Both these organisations should be closed ASAP!!!

I wouldn't hold out any hope of that I'm afraid. Mr Sawyer and Co have a history of dodgy business practises and ofcourse coupled with that, a history of avoiding the consequences. These people need to be brought to justice as quickly as possible. People have invested hard earnt money into this scam and it's people like the Sawyers who are sitting back and enjoying the profit from this.

Report abuse
19 Jul 2009, 12:55 PM 816983 in reply to 816877
Adrian Allan

Joined on 24 Dec 2008
Posts 8
Re: Promised returns of 4-6% per month (50% per annum or 80% compounded) !!!!
Breen

It seems that the Property Association and the likes of Peter Parfait were being paid 15% !! introduction fees from Uptons scheme.

In the case of the poor guy who invested 600k, thats 90k of his money.

They are certainly sitting pretty, and will simply duck blame as usual, they have another company called Push Internet Marketing operating out of the same premises in Marsland House, Sale.

http://www.pushinternetmarketing.co.uk/

This site has numerous blogs on it, perhaps people should start making comments here, this may force a response.

Report abuse
19 Jul 2009, 1:13 PM 816984 in reply to 816983
Adrian Allan

Joined on 24 Dec 2008
Posts 8
Re: Promised returns of 4-6% per month (50% per annum or 80% compounded) !!!!
The Cameron Farley scheme from Scotland that Upton modeled his currency fund on has failed to return anything to any investors, they have lost everything. On this evidence there doesn't seem to be much hope.

see:

http://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/be-careful-of-property-associations/

This company is run by a guy that has previously been the UK representative of a gold coin pyramid scam that was banned by the DTI. He also ran a company that was prosecuted by Hampshire police for fraudulent trading. He was also previously a representative of a MLM water filter company that famously went bust.
Seems that property investment attracts these type of people.

Mr Sawyer replied:

Report abuse
20 hours, 56 minutes ago 817029 in reply to 816984
A B

Joined on 18 Jul 2009
Posts 2
Re: Promised returns of 4-6% per month (50% per annum or 80% compounded) !!!!
adrianallan:
The Cameron Farley scheme from Scotland that Upton modeled his currency fund on has failed to return anything to any investors, they have lost everything. On this evidence there doesn't seem to be much hope.

see:

http://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/be-careful-of-property-associations/

This company is run by a guy that has previously been the UK representative of a gold coin pyramid scam that was banned by the DTI. He also ran a company that was prosecuted by Hampshire police for fraudulent trading. He was also previously a representative of a MLM water filter company that famously went bust.
Seems that property investment attracts these type of people.

I have been to this site. The comment above was specifically related to Mr Sawyer who ofcourse runs The Property Association and Europroperty amongst others. I am not sure of who the man is (Phil) who posted these comments on this site, but he seemed to have an axe to grind for whatever reason. This was a focus point for other posters who seemed to miss the point that if this 'Phil' DID have an axe to grind it means that Mr Sawyer upset him also! It would also seem that Mr Sawyer, who was trying to defend himself on that very site found some friends to try and hound out anyone questioning his business practices. After reading those comments left by Phil, I have done some investigating for myself. It is clear that, while the poster 'Phil' might not have lost any money to Mr Sawyer (I'm not sure of this though) and therefore might well be pursuing a personal vendetta, it doesn't stop his words being very much true.

Mr Sawyer replied to those comments but ofcourse failed to address the accusations levelled at him. The fact that Mr Sawyer doesn't have a criminal record means nothing as he has proven, and still is proving very clever at dodging bullets. From information given to me, it was apparently his son who took the fall when criminal charges were brought against one of their previous companies. The gold coin pyramid scheme being banned by the DTI is also true, whatever spin Mr Sawyer would like to put on it!

I have commented on the other site as I am also I victim of Mr Sawyer's tricks. This also includes his son Austen Sawyer, for whom lying comes as second nature. As I wrote on the other site, the Sawyers are swanning around living a somewhat champagne lifestyle. This is all brought about by other peoples hard earnt money ofcourse. People like these need to be stopped. We all need to act together, and sooner rather than later

30
Guest Avatar
peter rimmer 15th October, 2009 @ 11:32

the currency plan had "ponzi" and "pyramid" written all over it. i'm not suprized the sawyers are involved to be honest. they had a company that had criminal charges brought against it, then a pyramid gold coin scheme that was shut down by the dti as they deemed it an "illegal lottery", and now this??? whats next from the sawyers? do they have a nigerian general who has 10 million pounds to put in a u.k. bank account? hahahaha!

31
Guest Avatar
Anon 15th October, 2009 @ 11:39

Mark Sawyer has now been declared bankrupt. Yet another failed business. How convenient. I guess all the people pursuing him may well have to forget about the money they are owed.

His wife Virginia has started a business along similar lines. I suggest avoiding any type of business this family set up.

32
Guest Avatar
Phil 15th October, 2009 @ 16:43

I have searched all available web resources, and haven't found any official notification that either Mark Sawyer or Eurproperty Limited have been made bankrupt or been put into liquidation.

Do you have any more info on the new company established by Virginia Sawyer ?

33
Guest Avatar
Anon 15th October, 2009 @ 17:19

To be honest Phil, I have no info on that. This is information passed on to me by a colleague who is trying to start court proceedings against Mr Sawyer and his son.

As for the business his wife has started, I have no information as yet. To be honest, I wish to distance myself from the family and their shady activities. I have lost a lot of money because of them withouth much hope of seeing it returned. Therefore, chasing them around is soul destroying. Especially as the lifestyle they lead does not reflect that of someone who is struggling. Their big house and their exotic holidays are, for the likes of honest people like me who invest hard earnt money into what turn out to be no more than scams, a very bitter pill to swallow.

This is no witch hunt. This is no personal attack. This is a man who wants his money back after being tricked out of it so that someone else can live the high life. I only seek justice. Will I get it...? I won't hold my breath. Mr Sawyer and co seem well trained in dodging consequences.

34
Guest Avatar
Phil 15th October, 2009 @ 17:37

Anon

It would be really good if you could keep the blog updated with any additional information you hear.

35
Guest Avatar
razi suri 16th October, 2009 @ 12:39

the fact that anyone allowed themselves to give money to this "sawyer" family amazes me! did no one research them first? come on people, its not hard to do now weve all got the internet. i had the displeasure of meeting the sawyers about twelve years ago, they tried to pitch me on some pyramid gold, money tree, ponzi crap. after speaking to him, his son, (and some other useless kids who they'd dragged into it) for no less than 5 minutes, i felt like i was being 'had off' by a bunch of less than average beach salesmen. i said to my wife these exact words as we left: "this man can only work with kids, and middle-aged down and outs". i can spot his type a mile off, listens to motivational tapes, and has pictures on the wall that state buzz words such as 'effort' and 'teamwork'. 80's americanised b*llshit!

36
Guest Avatar
Anon 18th October, 2009 @ 18:53

Unfortunately Razi, unlike yourself I wasn't so on the ball when I was tricked into my dealings with the Sawyers. However I would like to state that personaly I am not a "kid" or a "middle-aged down and out". I also believe that the other good people who have contributed to this site and who have also been duped by the Sawyers would say similar. I tried to do some research on them before going into the deal, however there wasn't much to put me off at the time.

I do feel foolish for not seeing it for what it was, a scam, but at the time I believed them for whatever reasons. Ofcourse with hindsight I'm a lot wiser. The reason I post on this site is in the hope that no one else will go near them and make the same mistakes.

Maybe you are a better judge of character Razi, or maybe I'm just too trusting and naive. Either way, I hope no one makes the same mistakes I did.

37
Guest Avatar
razi suri 19th October, 2009 @ 12:28

to anon,
i apologise if i came across as a 'smart-ass', i really didnt intend to, and im sorry that you've lost money. full apologies, and i hope you manage to sort everything out.

razi.

38
Guest Avatar
Phil 19th October, 2009 @ 14:22

I can only sympathise with Anon, it is only recently that sites like this have been brave enough to publish the truth about Mark Sawyer, Virginia Sawyer and Austen Sawyer and their cronies.

And 'The Landlord' should be applauded for not giving in to the various legal threats that Mark Sawyer has made in his attempts to stop people like Anon speaking out and trying to save others from the same fate.

Isn't it amazing, even now their deals are being publicised by the likes of Peter Parfait, http://peterparfait.com/pp_recommendeddeals_fulldeal.php?t=2&d=41

You would think the Peter Parfaits of this world should know better, but then again, he was one of the people pushing the Upton 'Currency Plan' on the same site not long ago, and presumably earning a fee when people followed his very bad advice - "Contact Austen at The Property Association on 0845 060 6677 quoting Peter Parfait"

It's a bad world out there !

39
Guest Avatar
Anon 19th October, 2009 @ 19:15

But your ass is very much smart Razi! After all, you saw them for what they are ; ) But lets not turn this into a debate about your rear end! No offence was taken.

Thanks for the support anyway guys. I hope that sites like this one can make even a little difference.

40
Guest Avatar
stephen lockley 20th October, 2009 @ 15:09

after reading some of these comments, i think mr sawyer is getting a bit of a rough ride. i dont think he actually intended to fleece people of any money, it just sounds to me like he gets involved with stupid ''avoid like the plague'' scheme's and then tries to distance himself when they go belly up. my advice to him would be, stop being so naive, start acting resposibly, then you wouldnt have to wriggle out of anything, or get lots of stick on websites!
i dont know the man, and this is just my opinon, so please dont reply with a load of grief, im just calling it as i see it.
ste.

41
Guest Avatar
Investor 22nd October, 2009 @ 10:08

Interesting comments especially the currency plan scam as i nearly invested in this

Has anyone heard of the 'unlock your pension pot scheme ' by James Lau from WightmanFletcher McCabe financial advisors as advertised on Peter Parfait ????? and is it legit ?

42
Guest Avatar
Phil 22nd October, 2009 @ 15:35

Given the fees associated with these types of schemes you can be assured that Mr Parfait will be making a healthy fee for introducing you to this IFA.

You can release 25% of your pension pot as long as you are over 50 years of age anyway, the age limit changes next April to 55. Most IFA's can arrange this for you.

The schemes associated with releasing all your pension pot involves moving your pension fund offshore first, and then repatriating, which may make you nervous. So chose your advisor carefully.

Another FSA registered IFA offering this scheme is Mark Ainsworth based near Leeds.

www.markainsworthifa.co.uk

I haven't seen any IFA offer the full pension unlock scheme openly, as it is a current loophole that may be closed in the future.

43
Guest Avatar
Upton Accoutants Victim 24th January, 2010 @ 13:58

Sadly I was conned of £10 000 in the Upton accountants scam on the recommendation of Property Investment Deals, who are no better, before I found this site.

The FSA have sent a letter, dated 21st Jan, congratulating themselves on proposing 89% recovery over 7 years!! No interest, no compensation. I am furious that I am being fobbed off in this way.

I am writing back saying this is totally unacceptable and I am also writing to Upton asking them to show some integrity and professionalism and pay the full amount. My wife and I will demonstrate outside their offices if I dont get 100% returned.

If any other victoms want to share letters and thoughts please mail me rycort@live.co.uk.

44
Guest Avatar
smallcheese 20th April, 2010 @ 17:28

As another client of TPA and also having "benefited" from sevral of their unmisable, unbeatable property schemes I am now tryign to contact others who are in a simialr boat. There is a TPA promoted hotel investment in Yorkshire that has just gone belly up and now exposes the vacuus promises taht were made to TPA clients - fortuantely and unusually buyers have been able to make contact with each other to try urn turn the situation around. if there are others who have fallen into the TPA own a hotel room trap perhaps they would care to make contact and we can pool resources. smallcheese100 at yahoo.com

45
Guest Avatar
Fred Billington 10th June, 2010 @ 11:47

Mark sawyer's website www.thepropertyassociation.com is now closed, i think he's finally gone "bang". good riddance!

46
Guest Avatar
max freeway 10th June, 2010 @ 15:11

they are now called the prosperity association.

hahahahahaha!! another failed business for the sawyers, whats next? the propeller association!

47
Guest Avatar
phil 10th June, 2010 @ 16:38

He seems to want to rub his victims noses in it, by posting comments like the one below, from their holiday in Antigua, in November last year.

18th November 2009

Mark & Virginia Sawyer, from Holly Bank, Sale, UK, wrote:
“What a memorable day! Lots of fun + thanks 4 grt. Weather – recommending to everyone!! Thanks x”.

http://www.miramarsailing.com/caribbean_sailing_vacations/guest_comments2.html

A nice holiday using "other peoples money", bound to please his victims.

Mind you, Antigua is famous for offshore accounts, maybe they had other reasons to visit.

48
Guest Avatar
max freeway 14th June, 2010 @ 13:27

it doesnt look like theyve got a pot to piss in anymore! also, they are touting that easytax123 shit about! in my opinion, they are basically looking for unemployable fuckwitts with a few hundred quid to throw away, who want to "pretend" they have a business! sad!
have the sawyers ever had a business that didnt fail?? theyve had enough attempts! aaaaw bless! if anything, they are try-ers!!

49
Guest Avatar
max freeway 15th June, 2010 @ 08:03

i was probably a bit harsh in my last comment, i got carried away reading all the other comments, i dont know the sawyers an i feel my comments were unfair, so id like to take them back. also can i apologise for the language i used. hope i didnt offend anyone.

50
Guest Avatar
Anon 15th June, 2010 @ 14:00

Max, I wouldn't worry about it. No ammount of harsh comments or indeed bad language could upset anyone quite as much as the business practices of the Sawyers and co. I think everyone appreciates the fact that many have been hurt by the dishonesty of the Sawyers, and blogs like this are a vent for the anger that builds up due to that.

To laugh at the fall of such people is normal. To want the fall of such people is more so. I know I certainly want the latter and most certainly will be doing the first, if indeed the Sawyers do hit rock bottom. I won't hold my breath though. As history provided by Phil shows, Mr Sawyer and co move on from one scam to another with considerable ease, without a care for their victims.

I see this blog keeps rumbling on. I wonder where Mr Mark Sawyer and Mr Austen Sawyers lies end. That's ofcourse not to forget Mrs Virginia Sawyer who by all accounts has now set up her own business. I wonder where thats going!

Comments like your Max are needed if people are going to get smart to cheats like the Sawyers.

51
Guest Avatar
phil 15th June, 2010 @ 17:47

Max

You may have actually done everybody a big favour, identified the latest potential venture from Mark Sawyer.

BE WARNED

The Prosperity Association

www.theprosperityassociation.com

or visit via the back door - http://www.theprosperityassociation.com/reports/ET123.pdf

On past evidence it won't be his clients who prosper.

At least forearmed is forewarned.

Apparently here’s what you need to do to take advantage of his latest, I'll take your money scheme -

quote (from his latest venture)

"Phone Mark Sawyer on 0161 926 0674 (local rate call) to arrange your no obligation Easytax123 Profit System meeting with us or... Email EasyTax123@TheProsperityAssociation.com and within 24 hours we’ll call you directly"

Alternatively you could-

If you've never had the misfortune of dealing with him -

Never call or e-mail him - ever

If you have been unfortunate enough to have crossed paths with him (heaven forbid)

Just call or e-mail him to ask for your money back !

52
Guest Avatar
anon 15th June, 2010 @ 22:22

Reading over this from the start and it become clear that whoever Phil is? He has been telling a few porkies...

Phil wrote this on 2009-03-11 11:50:45
.. and I don't have a gripe with him or the company personally.

And yet over a year on Phil, you are the main guy replying on this blog post and I'd even go as far to say getting a little bit stalky! lol (grabing personal holiday snaps of people is a little bit extreme! lol)

Of the 52 replies, Phil has made just under half of them.
Not really the kind of actions of someone who "doesn't have a gripe"

Spill the beans Phil, what's happened to you?
You know it feels good to get things off your chest every once and a while.
I'd suggest you have a cold beer, put your feet up and try and enjoy the world cup! Come on England!

53
Guest Avatar
phil 16th June, 2010 @ 14:43

Anon

I'm taking your advice, I've got my feet up with a few cold beers, watching the world cup.

54
Guest Avatar
Waggoman 27th September, 2010 @ 21:09

In the above blog comments the name of Peter Parfait crops up - real name Jonathan Willis. What is his involvement, if any, with the swindles mentioned?

55
Guest Avatar
anon 8th October, 2010 @ 10:51

i dont think anyone is accusing peter parfait of anything. i think it was just people "warning of" and "commenting on" mr sawyers alleged sharp business practices.

56
Guest Avatar
phil 21st December, 2010 @ 17:49

The directors of Eurproperty Ltd, the actual trading company behind The Property Association submitted an application to have the company struck off on the 24/09/2010

57
Guest Avatar
Mrs D Vaghela 3rd July, 2011 @ 13:09

Mark Sawyer is a cheat and has 'done' thousands of people with his lies. I too have been a victim when I purchased one of his so called 'instant equity' property near Newcastle in 2006. I soon realised what a big mistake I had made. This man should be behind bars!! He is a cheat, a liar, and has no pity at all for all the people he has ripped off. DO NOT DEAL WITH THIS MAN!!!!!!!

58
Guest Avatar
jon higgert 2nd March, 2012 @ 13:23

yeah their latest scheme is brokers banner

blatantly a scam its so obvious but nonetheless will make them some money

59
Guest Avatar
anon 28th April, 2012 @ 09:20

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16217763

Interesting how the sawyers were/are involved in LAND2BUILD and now we see this??? (im not saying that this is anything to do with them, but from what Ive read it wouldn't suprise me!!!)

60
Guest Avatar
stella avery 31st July, 2012 @ 12:24

I have just lost nearly £5,000 investing n a property assosiation by p way with the deal waying upfront fees stupit I may be but as a pensioner thats worked hard all my life and trusted someone who said there was a huge instant equity to be made and that the flat I was buying was a great investment I went for it.luckily enough I didnt go the whole way with the deal as I found out it was not what it seemed, and I was lied to in every way. So please anyone looking to invest in one of these companys be ware.

61

Please leave a comment...

Nobody

Nobody

Landlord

Landlord

Tenant

Tenant

Agent

Agent

Legal

Legal

Buyer

Buyer

Developer

Developer

Enthusiast

Enthusiast